Hi Philip, Well, always as author/creator of the game it is up to you how you want to create your puzzles. If you think putting a switch or lever in another room is a bad idea don't do it that way. As I mentioned in my prior post most of the time the switch, button, etc is in the same room as the item to unlock.
For example, in Tomb Raider Anniversary one of the first obsticals to pass is a room filled with poison darts. You can either try and avoid them, or you can climb up the wall and push a switch which will disable the dart traps. This is in the same room and a quick inspection will show that there is a switch high up on the wall. I don't think it takes too much logic and/or ddeduction to figure out that a switch high up on the wall most likely disables the dart traps. Make sense? In one of the Classic NES games I use to play there were locked tresure chests scattered around the levels with special items in them. They weren't particularly hard to open. Usually, there was a green button in the middle of the room you would jump on and when you did the lid would pop open on the chests. Little things like that weren't hard to figure out, but added so much more to the game play for me. However, I've played plenty of games where the switch, lever, button wasn't located in the same place. In Tomb Raider Prophecy, for example, you might be in a room with a locked door. You might have to run up a staircase, go right, flip the switch, and hurry back to the dor before it closes again. I'm use to that kind of puzzle element because I've played lots of games like that. I certainly agree it doesn't make any logical sense, but it does require some experimentation, and/or practice to figure it out. In my opinion that is exactly the kind of thing that makes me play a game over and over again until I figure it out. The less obvious the puzzle the harder the game is to figure out and play. I don't like games if they are too simple or too easy to play. As far as a jungle environment goes there are a number of things you can do that is logical and still have some sort of puzzle element in them. What if you are trying to cross a river filled with hungry crocodiles. Well, there might be some way to create a makeshift bridge. There might be a big tree nearby you can cut down to cross the river, or you can use boulders to create a foot bridge across the river. Perhaps there is a large tree with a vine on it you have to use in order to swing across the river. You see, it doesn't have to necessarily be high tech. Just obsticals etc you have to do a little thinking to figure out how to resolve. One puzzle element I've recently encountered in a game is shooting switches from a distance. For instance, if you are in the jungle and you have to get from one cliff to another there might be a drawbridge you have to lower to get to the other side. You might use your bow and arrow to shoot an arrow across the chasm, hit the switch, and the drawbridge will fall down. These kinds of puzzle elements are becoming quite common in mainstream games, I think make sense, and I'd personally like to see more elements like this in audio games. Personally, I don't mind a certain amount of guess work, because I really enjoy that in a game. That is something I truly miss, and something many accessible game developers seam to dislike for one reason or another. I don't say this to be overly critical, but in my opinion accessible games are being dumbed down, over simplified, etc. Instead of creating games with a serious level of challenge developers are continuing to produce very simple games that are below average when compared to the mainstream in terms of complexity etc. I don't know if this is a skill or experience thing, or just an attitude that we aren't smart enough, good enough, or able to play more complex games but I kind of find it a bit of a defeatest attitude when people say this or that is too complicated or too hard. I personally don't believe they have tried hard enough at it myself. The thing is that I feel like an alien when I'm around other blind gamers and other blind developers because I'm litterally from two different worlds, two different levels of experience, and i find it so absolutely frustrating to get people to understand what real mainstream gaming is like. Most of them don't really care which I find a bit ironic. Every few months there is a debate on Audyssey where people want Sony, Nintendo, Activision, Capcom, etc to listen to us and create accessible games for the XBox, Wii, and PS3. Unfortunately, if they did start making their games accessible I feel most people on this list wouldn't play them. Not just because of the money involved, but the games are so much different that people would most likely end up wining and complaining about them being too hard like the always do. Accessible gaming, such as it is, wouldn't really prepare them for the kinds of games someone sighted our age is playing right now. Anyway, to sum up you are the creator/author of your games and it really isn't up to me to tell you how to create them. Merely take these ideas as suggestions, and take from them what you will. I understand that my views aren't the popular views shared by my fellow blind gamers, and my point of view has largely been influenced by mainstream games that I have personally played. I am well aware that my experience with gaming is quite a bit different than your own, and I got interested in guess work, mazes, and other challenges early on where you dislike those things. Unfortunately, this comes down to a matter of personal preference, but I do think some things can be put to good use if you look at some mainstream games and borrow from them ideas that might be of interest to you personally. Cheers! On 3/9/11, Philip Bennefall <phi...@blastbay.com> wrote: > Hi Thomas, > > Speaking of puzzles. You mention things like pushing a certain switch to > unlock a door in another room, but I don't really see that as a puzzle. I > see that more as a random action that just happens to do something. I mean, > there is no logic that explains why this switch should or should not open > that particular door. Do you see where I'm coming from? In other words you > would not be able to figure it out with an intelligent process of deduction, > you would have to try things at random to see what happens or be told by > someone else. Puzzles that are in some way connected to what they actually > do, I would call those proper puzzles. But just pressing a certain switch > somewhere has no logical connection with the door in question in my mind. > > Another problem with this is the environment setting. My upcoming game is > set in a jungle, and there would be no logic for me to use switches or > similar high-tech devices to accomplish things. I could make it so that you > had to jump on a certain stone to accomplish something but it wouldn't make > any logical sense, it would just be something you had to do to progress but > there would be no particular reason for doing so. These kinds of puzzles > turn me away from a game rather quickly, since if I don't see a reason why I > have to do something it doesn't really create an enjoyable experience. It > becomes guesswork rather than gaming. > > What are your views on this? > > Kind regards, > > Philip Bennefall --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. 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