Tom - My comments to the different gasifiers are written below each.
But before any thing will be commercial it must be competitive - with out enormous green premiums. The very few markets on the north pole and pacific islands etc will never drive the development alone. Thomas -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] På vegne af Tom Miles Sendt: 26. juni 2012 01:11 Til: 'Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification'; [email protected] Emne: Re: [Gasification] 2 MWe Gasifier at University of British Columbia, Vancouver, Canada Thomas Who are the likely small scale gasifier suppliers that will conquer these challenges? A Ankur Scientific, India http://www.ankurscientific.com/ Too bad workman ship - hot parts made from refractory steel - large char loss and too much tar in the gas for larger ones - only for developing countries. B. Babcock Volund, Denmark http://www.volund.dk/ 3 gasifiers up to 2 MWe Too expensive and complex - the real price level seems to be 0,4-0,6 us$/kWh Biogen, Dominican Republic http://www.biogendr.com/app/en/frontpage.aspx 300-500 kWe modules, Italy Dont know C CarboConsult, South Africa http://www.carboconsult.com/ 250 kWe, Melanie, Gauteng, South Africa Dont know Carbona/Andritz, Finland http://www.andritz.com/pp-gasification-andritz-carbona 3 MWe plant in Skive, Denmark Fluidised bed gasifier are too complex and produce a dirty gas - needs pellets CleanStGas, Austria http://www.cleanstgas.com/ 125-250 kWe/235-480 kWth Dont know Community Power Corporation www.gocpc.com 50-75 kWe modules. Dont know E EKZ, Switzerland www.ekz.ch Turnkey wood gasifier installations Dont know G Gasek, Finland www.gasek.fi 50 kWe/100 kWth Too small to be competitive I IISc, India and Licensees http://cgpl.iisc.ernet.in/site/Technologies/BiomassGasification/tabid/68/Def ault.aspx M MEVA Innovation AB, Sweden (fine wood fuels) http://www.mevainnovation.se/ 1-10 MWe; 1.2 MWe in construction Horlax, Pitea Mothermik, Germany http://www.mothermik.com/engl/prod-1holzver-e.html 10 plants.250 kWe Too big char loss and too high maintenance cost N Nexterra Ltd., Vancouver, Canada http://www.nexterra.ca/ 2 MWe in construction. University of British Columbia R Repotec, Austria http://www.repotec.at/index.php/homepage.html Dual fluidized bed for CHP Too complex and expensive S Satake, Japan (IISc, India technology) http://www.satake-group.com/news/2008/080214.html Up to 900 kWe modules Stirling DK, Denmark http://www.stirling.dk/ 15-140 kWe, Updraft gasifier with stirling engine. Far too expensive and to small to be reliably investment cost 10000 €/Kw T TK Eenergi, Denmark http://www.tke.dk 3 stage gasifier Too complex and too difficult to upscale - most ly due to bed stability issues U Urbas Energietechnik, Austria http://www.rsbiomass.com/urbas_gas.html 150 kWe/310 kWth fixed bed downdraft W Weiss, Denmark, two stage gasification www.weiss-as.dk 1-2 MWe Wrong desing - can not be safety approved due to hot metalic parts - Hot grid not stable - Impossible to get reliably informations about X Xylowatt, Belgium http://www.xylowatt.com/ 350 kWe modules Nice design - probably the best gasifier XyloPower AG, Switzerland www.xylopower.com Dont know Which companies have 3 operating, commercial, gasifiers? Who else? Tom Miles -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Thomas Koch Sent: Monday, June 25, 2012 2:15 PM To: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification; [email protected] Subject: Re: [Gasification] 2 MWe Gasifier at University of British Columbia, Vancouver, Canada Tom I am sure this price level is achieveable - BUT BUT BUT - there is a major challege that must be overcommed. You need some where you can have 5-10 similar gasifiers operating for 10 of thousans of hours each with in reachable distance from their "parent (s)" and this alone needs 50 - 100 mio $ on top of the market price for the electricity - and it is possible to maintain a stable and bright and not religious brain capacity for a decade or two. On top of that you need to start with a good idea and that is where most principles fail. And what does that mean? Not too complex - with a potential to handle the challenges that will come in an ECONOMICALLY COMPETITIVE way!!! Examples - Vølund - Nexterra - CFBs-Repotec and this type of gasifiers will alvays have the challenge og tar/perticle gas handling issues - personally I believe it is too complex to handle in a competitive way. FCC - may be large scale - but catalyst and gasifier is a challenge 2-3 stage - Viking - double feuer - TKE - and the likes have high temperature challenges and reduction challenges and bed stability issues - variation in gaspermeability etc Stirling show a large drop in efficiency if upscaled above 50-75 kW thus the biomass handling systems becomes very small and sensitive. Entrained flow are very big and needs extensive pretreatment of the fuel. Many things will work for some time if nursed properly by the enthusiastic developers. Thomas -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] På vegne af Tom Miles Sendt: 25. juni 2012 22:51 Til: 'Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification'; [email protected] Emne: Re: [Gasification] 2 MWe Gasifier at University of British Columbia, Vancouver, Canada Thomas, You seem to be the bearer of good news. Can you deliver a (3 stage) gasifier(s) to deliver 2 MWe to a grid in Alaska? What would you expect the capital and operating costs to be? We have a few small communities with electrical loads of 1-2 MWe. Power is currently supplied from diesel generators for USD $0.44-$0.65/kWh. Good clean wood chips are available at $40-50% MC and $USD 85-100/dry ton. #2 heating oil costs about $4.40 or about $32/MMBtu (HHV). Most communities just want to produce power. Heat distribution does not exist but they could probably sell heat in a small loop for about $20/MMBtu. Is there a future for gasification in these communities? Thanks Tom Miles _______________________________________________ Gasification mailing list to Send a Message to the list, use the email address [email protected] to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenerg ylists.org for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site: http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/ _______________________________________________ Gasification mailing list to Send a Message to the list, use the email address [email protected] to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenerg ylists.org for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site: http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/ _______________________________________________ Gasification mailing list to Send a Message to the list, use the email address [email protected] to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site: http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/ _______________________________________________ Gasification mailing list to Send a Message to the list, use the email address [email protected] to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site: http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/
