Anand, thanks for your comments. I answer them in the text below.

On 10/12/2013 12:13 PM, Anand Karve wrote:
Dear David,
rock dust is certainly a good additive to soil, but the ordinary soil in our fields is itself derived from the rocks underneath the soil layer and therefore soil contains more or less the same minerals that the rock contains. ***Anand**that's not quite correct and to explain what I mean would require quite a deal of space. Soil is one commiodity about which it is impossible to make blanket statements.* Secondly, you have quoted that according to John D. Hamaker the microbes produced enzymes which dissolved the minerals in the rock dust. *That's not correct either. I didn't credit JDH with that statement, it is a biological fac**t**.* That is true in the case of a few minerals which are in the form of calcium salts. But water is a universal solvent and all minerals are soluble in water to a small extent. *Anand, any mineral is soluble in water provided it is in a water soluble form.****In basalt - or any rock form - it is not water soluble and you rely entirely on enzymes. * They are taken up by the microbes directly, because the microbes absorb them through their entire cell surface, which is a more efficient manner of absorption than the plants,which absorb minerals only through their root hairs. *I'd like to read more of this - can you give me a credible reference please ? * The soil solution represents a saturated solution of the minerals. Therefore, any mineral molecule that is removed from the solution by either plants or microbes, gets replaced immediately from the pool of undissolved minerals in the soil. This property is called dynamic equilibrium. A 1 meter thick layer of soil has enough minerals to allow you to conduct agriculture for about 25000 years. *Not in Australia and many other countries !****"Soils ain't soils !". Australia, for example, missed the last Ice Age and a 1 metre thick slice of our soil won't keep your belly full for more than a couple of birthdays. Australian soils are deficient in most minerals and were almost entirely leached of P. Australian topsoil averages around 12mm thick. For this reason our agricultural productivity leapt ahead once we accessed the P in guano from Christmas Island and then from Nauru. Then we set up superphosphate manufacturing and the rest in history. Australia is not unique.****But some areas here are quite mineral rich and you can add rock dust as heavy and as aften as you like and get no result, because it doesn't need minerals. But most other areas do need it and you differentiate through soil analysis.* *Bu**t, all our soil and soils of the world desperately need more Organic Matter.* *Our national average is under 1%, where 5% is a desired minimum.
*
* For general interest**have a look at http://rfcarchives.org.au/Next/CaringForTrees/Remineralisation3-94.htm Got to go ! DJM.
*
Yours A.D.Karve
On Sun, Dec 8, 2013 at 9:45 AM, David Murphy <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:

    Joe, you might find it of interest to look
    up John D. Hamaker on the net.  He was an
    American Mechanical Engineer who turned his
    mind (and subsequently devoted his life) to
    improving soil by the addition of rock dust.
    He saw global warming as a precursor to the
    next ice age. He saw an ice age as essential
refurbishment of the earth's resources. His argument has a lot of good solid logioc
    to it and it's worth adding to your store of
    knowledge on the general topic.     If he's
    proven right, then we're in a lot of trouble
    !    If you want to study it further I have
    a DVD I made from a tape he produced I could
    let you have.

    Rock dust is a storehouse of minerals, all
    of which are essential to growth.    First
    to plants and then to the animals which eat
    them - including us humans.   Rock dust is
    insoluble to water but not to enzymes which
    are produced by soil benevolent bacteria -
    bacteria which are present in soil with good
    OM and in compost.     Many readers of this
    string will be aware of it's benefits when
    used as fertiliser.

    Seeking to remedy climate change purported
    to be caused by anthropomorphic global
    warming is an extraordinarily complex
    question.   And seeking to make a
    contribution by sequestering carbon as
    charcoal is in itself another complex range
    of issues.     The charcoal must be first
    ligneos carbon - wood - and it is probably
    almost as good to lock up some of that
    carbon in timber for building houses or
    making furniture.

    I'd promote the first step by making the
    sequestration of the carbon as part of a
    broader program of building building soil
    organic matter OM.   This includes animate
    carbon as well as vegetative.     At least
    get it up to 5% to plough depth, say 10
    inches (250mm) as a minimum, aiming at
    20%.   That in itself locks away a lot of
    carbon, but of a different nature, in that
    it's available to contribute to plant
    growth, growth without the need for chemical
    or artificial fertilisers.

    Every 1% increase in soil OM (world wide)
    would be a lockup of around 30 billion
    tonnes of carbon in  a world which generates
    now (probably) 20 million tonnes
    annually.    Just for the record, the
    biggest emitter of CO2, bigger than every
    other agency combined - every factory,
    airplane, car truck tractor etc and so on -
is the soil of the earth as it respires. So, the more land we put down under crop to
    feed the increasing billions, the more CO2
    we produce and put into the atmosphere.

    So, it's a race against a proven runner - so
    called mother Nature - and she's a proven
    stayer.

    On the other hand, some of the wise owls are
    now saying it's not CO2 at all, but PCB's
    causing the damage.   Maybe they're right -
    who knows _for sure ?_    Nobody I'm aware
    of despite what they say.    It's all
    conjecture, some of it soundly based, but
    still conjecture relying on historical info
    compiled over a geological blink.

    Using charcoal and zeolite together is a bit
    like wearing belt & braces with
    self-supporting trousers.     It certainly
    works !

    The easy and less costly way is to just get
    the OM into the soil and plant stuff to grow
    and suck up all the CO2 and N.

    But whatever you do, don't stop the good work.

    David Murphy.


    On 08/12/2013 12:33 PM, Joe Barnas wrote:
    DAVID,

    Thankyou for the insightful overview of
    biochar and comparative functionality of
    Zeolite, of which I was not familiar.

    However one thing I am focused on is how to
    address catastrophic global climate change
    and for that having billions of gardeners
    sequestering carbon, while building healthy
    soil and hence healthy food is not
    something that Zeolite can provide.  It is
    another tool in growing food, yes, but
    let's not lose sight of the long term
    benefit of promoting biochar.  I might even
    try mixing some with biochar just to gain
    the N adsorption benefits.


    On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 2:00 PM, David
    Murphy <[email protected]
    <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:


        Greetings Biochar/Gasifier people !

        Everybody & his dog seems to have
        something to say about
        charcoal/biochar/biochar-compost mix
        and so on.    Well, here's another dog
        to bark his piece !

        Biochar is often seen as the great
        agricultural panacea, but _it is
        not_.Biochar is a name given to plain
        ordinary charcoal to indicate that it
        is destined for use in soil
        improvement, but basically it is still
        plain ordinary charcoal, just crushed
        into smaller particles. In some
        circumstances it is a very beneficial
        tool but it is not magical as some
        proponents seem to think.   Just
        remember, all charcoal has a bio-origin
        - wood.

        In some Ag. trials in Australiait
        significantly improved crop volume
        (treble in one case) but in other
        instances, nothing worth writing home
        about.It depends on what the soil is
        like to start with.

        Charcoal is stable.That means it does
        not take part in any composting system
        (which is one primarily of bacterial
        digestion) and it is indigestible so
        that when offered as a dietary
        supplement (in poultry food for
        example) it passes through the
        digestive system physically unchanged
        but will adsorb a high proportion of
        the gases and some toxins produced in
        the process of digestion, because that
        is what charcoal does.    For this
        reason, it's adsorption capability,
        poultry will generally do better on a
        little charcoal.

        Quite a few pages could be filled on
        the beneficial services provided by
        charcoal as it travels through the
        digestive system, but it does it as
        charcoal only and as nothing else.   By
        all means use a little in the feed, you
        can only benefit.

        The only physical way to change the
nature of charcoal is to burn it. That is why it lasts in soil (or
        wherever it is) for thousands of years.

        It has an incredibly high surface area
        of 360 m^2 (varies) and is a mass of
        minute tunnels which in turn means a
        very high volume and gases become
        trapped in these tunnels.It does not
        _ab_sorb, it _ad_sorbs and traps
        only.The difference between absorb and
        adsorb is the same as the difference in
        liquids of suspension and solution.Clay
        particles will be in suspension, sugar
        and salt go into solution.

        Charcoal is useful in an aerobic
        composting system because again of the
        entrapment of air in the tunnels.A
        composting system goes well if there is
        enough oxygen bearing air available to
        the bacteria which are a significant
        part of the system.The more air, the
        higher the population of bacteria
        (other factors being OK). The charcoal
        itself is inoperative, and doesn't
        change, nor is it a catalyst, it simply
        provides a service.   It will only
        provide a haven for soil benevolent
        bacteria if there is something trapped
        in the tunnels which the bacteria can eat.

        Charcoal is a good adsorber of gas and
        liquid simply because that is what it
        does.Zeolite on the other hand, can
        have an even higher surface are per
        gram and has a propensity to entrap
        gases, most particularly nitrogen in
        it's various forms -- as gas --
        ammonium for example -- and in liquids
        as a salt of NO_3 .It actually draws
        them in (like a magnet attracts ferric
        objects) where charcoal just takes it
        as it comes.    It is easy to see also
        why charcoal is so effective as a
        filter, but if you have a solution rich
        in nitrogen, run it through Zeolite and
        the N will be removed. Add some to the
        litter in poultry grower sheds, there
        will be fewer mortalities because the
        ammonia which sometimes will asphixiate
small birds will be absorbed. Zeolite will take N out of solution,
        charcoal will not.    There's 40
        natural forms of Zeolite and more than
        another 150 can be synthesised, so
        choose carefully for the one most
        appropriate to your problem. Zeolite
        can perform an amazing range of
        actions.    Once used and applied as
        fertiliser, Zeolite subsequently will
        release the N slowly and remain in the
        soil as a balancer of N.  Too much, it
        will take it in (so that the soil pH is
        not lowered) and release it as required.

        Charcoal's great stuff though, it's
        easy to make and holds answers to a lot
        of problems - but not all !

        David Murphy.

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-- Joe Barnas
    Portland, OR
    541-525-1665


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--
***
Dr. A.D. Karve
Trustee & Founder President, Appropriate Rural Technology Institute (ARTI)



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