Makes sense to me. Yes, I know it's 4/1 but I would support this proposal. Craig
> On Apr 1, 2022, at 5:44 PM, Julian Hyde <jhyde.apa...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Going through the incubator makes sense. I would probably be champion and a > mentor, and given the experience of the project members, there’s not much > Apache Way to be taught. We can complete the necessary admin tasks (IP check, > name search, etc.) and make a release via the Incubator. > > In the incubation proposal [1], DB would be the Sponsoring Entity. Per the > proposal template, the DB PMC would need to vote whether to sponsor. > > Julian > > [1] https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/INCUBATOR/New+Podling+Proposal > >> On Apr 1, 2022, at 5:13 PM, Craig Russell <apache....@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Hi, >> >> The hard part about bringing in sub-projects is what the incubator focuses >> on: >> importing the code base into apache repositories >> getting the proper licensing in place for the code >> making releases with attention to vetting, voting, and staging >> working as a community >> >> If we have suitable mentors for SQLLine it should be a quick trip through >> the incubator. And the DB project can adopt it at graduation, assuming that >> we can get the required consensus among the DB PMC members. >> >> Best regards, >> Craig >> >>> On Apr 1, 2022, at 4:50 PM, Julian Hyde <jhyde.apa...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> Petri seems to be intended for prospective top-level projects, and for >>> projects that have no experience with the Apache Way. Neither of those are >>> true for SQLLine. I would like to hear Craig’s opinion in light of the >>> discovery that the bylaws allow the PMC to create sub-projects. >>> >>> >>>> On Apr 1, 2022, at 2:02 PM, Rick Hillegas <rick.hille...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> I would be happy to call a vote on adding SQLLine as a DB sub-project. >>>> However, it seems to me that SQLLine must first pass the hurdles of some >>>> process which verifies its community support and IP. If Craig thinks that >>>> Petri is an adequate fast-track process, then that sounds like the next >>>> step. I'm happy to serve as DB sponsor--if such a thing is relevant to >>>> Petri--provided that this doesn't entail much work. >>>> >>>> On 4/1/22 1:10 PM, Julian Hyde wrote: >>>>> By the way, I know that DB is due to send a report for this month's ASF >>>>> Board meeting. I think it would be appropriate to mention that SQLLine >>>>> has approached the project with a view to joining as a sub-project. >>>>> >>>>> On 2022/04/01 20:07:18 Julian Hyde wrote: >>>>>> Thanks for raising this, Carl. I think the SQLLine project members would >>>>>> be interested in joining the DB project by this means. Given the >>>>>> members' experience with Apache this low-friction approach makes sense. >>>>>> >>>>>> Julian >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 2022/03/30 19:25:11 Carl Steinbach wrote: >>>>>>> I'm a longtime user of both Sqlline and Apache DB, and think the former >>>>>>> is a natural fit for the latter. I am also an Apache and IPMC member, >>>>>>> and am eager to help in any way to get this process moving. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I also wanted to note that the Apache DB Project Bylaws [1] specify the >>>>>>> following process for adding new subprojects: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> "PMC members may propose the creation of new subprojects. Creation of a >>>>>>> new subproject requires approval by 3/4 positve vote with a minimum of >>>>>>> 3 positive votes of the PMC. Abstaining PMC voters do not affect the >>>>>>> result. New code enters the DB project in accordance with ASF policy." >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Rick, is there any chance that you would be willing to propose the >>>>>>> creation of the Sqlline subproject? If so, I'm happy to write up the >>>>>>> proposal. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> - Carl >>>>>>> >>>>>>> [1] https://db.apache.org/management.html >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 2021/11/01 19:30:11 Julian Hyde wrote: >>>>>>>> Thanks, Craig. It seems that Petri would be a reasonable route for a >>>>>>>> mature project to become an Apache TLP. As would Incubator, in my >>>>>>>> opinion. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> However, my main questions concern DB. Is DB interested in >>>>>>>> sub-projects? If so, how would one enter DB? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I think that SQLLine would be a good fit in DB, but other than Rick’s >>>>>>>> remarks, I’m not sensing much enthusiasm. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Julian >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Nov 1, 2021, at 11:54 AM, Craig Russell <apache....@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The incubator is indeed how most projects come to Apache. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> But Petri is a group that is specifically designed to fast-track >>>>>>>>> projects that already know how communities work and are interested in >>>>>>>>> bringing their project to Apache. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> You can start by looking at the project web site >>>>>>>>> https://petri.apache.org and asking questions on the discuss@ mail >>>>>>>>> list. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Warm regards, >>>>>>>>> Craig >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Nov 1, 2021, at 7:03 AM, Rick Hillegas <rick.hille...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I don't know of any fast-track process for circumventing the >>>>>>>>>> incubator. I have never incubated a project myself, so I would defer >>>>>>>>>> to Craig for guidance. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 11/1/21 12:13 AM, Julian Hyde wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> (Moving sqlline-dev to bcc.) >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for the reply, and the warm welcome, Rick. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> From what I can tell (if Derby, JDO, Cayenne are to be regarded as >>>>>>>>>>> typical), sub-projects enter the DB project via the Incubator, >>>>>>>>>>> sponsored by >>>>>>>>>>> DB, and after completing incubation graduate into DB. And then the >>>>>>>>>>> committers of the incubating sub-project become PMC members of DB. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> The Incubation process seems viable for us. I'm sure we can attract >>>>>>>>>>> a few >>>>>>>>>>> more regular contributors during incubation. The ‘teaching people >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> Apache Way’ aspect of the Incubator seems unnecessary, given that >>>>>>>>>>> contributors to SQLLine have plenty of Apache experience; I took >>>>>>>>>>> Calcite >>>>>>>>>>> through incubation, and have mentored a half dozen projects through >>>>>>>>>>> incubation. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> By the way, does that process require a Board vote? Or is it just a >>>>>>>>>>> vote by >>>>>>>>>>> the DB PMC? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Would IP clearance be an alternative way to enter? I guess if we >>>>>>>>>>> went that >>>>>>>>>>> route, we would still have to earn our commit bits & PMC membership >>>>>>>>>>> after >>>>>>>>>>> entering DB, and in the interim, that would make releases a bit >>>>>>>>>>> difficult. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Julian >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 30, 2021, at 12:11 PM, Rick Hillegas >>>>>>>>>>> <rick.hille...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Hey Julian, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I think that the DB project would be a good home for SQLLine. DB >>>>>>>>>>> already >>>>>>>>>>> has a SQL REPL tool called ij, which can be deployed against any >>>>>>>>>>> JDBC >>>>>>>>>>> database. The ij REPL tool is part of the Derby toolset: >>>>>>>>>>> https://db.apache.org/derby/docs/10.15/tools/ctoolsij34525.html >>>>>>>>>>> There could >>>>>>>>>>> be some interesting cross-pollination between SQLLine and ij. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Craig Russell hangs out at the DB project. He has a wealth of >>>>>>>>>>> experience >>>>>>>>>>> incubating projects and can probably help guide you through the >>>>>>>>>>> process. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> You probably already know much more about the Apache incubator than >>>>>>>>>>> I do, >>>>>>>>>>> given your stewardship of Calcite. At first blush, it sounds as >>>>>>>>>>> though you >>>>>>>>>>> need to sort out some IP issues and attract a couple more active >>>>>>>>>>> contributors in order to pass the incubator hurdles. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I don't know what you need from DB at this point. Maybe Craig can >>>>>>>>>>> weigh in. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Welcome and a big +1 to folding SQLLine into Apache DB. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>>>>>> -Rick >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 10/28/21 8:49 PM, Julian Hyde wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Is the DB project interested in adding sub-projects? And if so, what >>>>>>>>>>> are the criteria for acceptance, and what is the process? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> SQLLine [1] is an open-source project that provides a command-line >>>>>>>>>>> shell for any JDBC data source. It is widely used, including in >>>>>>>>>>> Apache >>>>>>>>>>> projects such as Drill and Calcite, and even more widely forked >>>>>>>>>>> (e.g. >>>>>>>>>>> Hive’s Beeline). The project was founded in around 2002 [2] and >>>>>>>>>>> around >>>>>>>>>>> 2012 I adopted it, moved it to GitHub, and started making releases >>>>>>>>>>> again [3]. We have two regular contributors (myself and Sergey >>>>>>>>>>> Nuyanzin) and several occasional contributors, and make one or two >>>>>>>>>>> releases per year. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> In the SQLLine project, we have recently started a conversation >>>>>>>>>>> about >>>>>>>>>>> governance, branding and IP ownership. Based on its GitHub URL, >>>>>>>>>>> people tend to assume that it is a single-developer project, and >>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>> perception may hurt adoption and participation. We have been moving >>>>>>>>>>> towards an ASF-style governance model based on a PMC and committers, >>>>>>>>>>> but we are just short of critical mass. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> We think that SQLLine might be a good fit for the DB project. As a >>>>>>>>>>> Java-based tool for interacting with databases it fits the mission >>>>>>>>>>> perfectly; several of us are active in ASF projects and therefore >>>>>>>>>>> know >>>>>>>>>>> how things work in Apache. If accepted, we could contribute to the >>>>>>>>>>> running of the DB project (voting on other sub-projects’ releases, >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> example). >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Please let us know whether you think it would be a good fit for our >>>>>>>>>>> projects. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Julian >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> [1] https://github.com/julianhyde/sqlline >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> [2] https://sourceforge.net/projects/sqlline/files/sqlline/ >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> [3] https://github.com/julianhyde/sqlline/blob/master/HISTORY.md >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Craig L Russell >>>>>>>>> c...@apache.org >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>> >>> >> >> Craig L Russell >> c...@apache.org >> > Craig L Russell c...@apache.org
