Petri seems to be intended for prospective top-level projects, and for projects that have no experience with the Apache Way. Neither of those are true for SQLLine. I would like to hear Craig’s opinion in light of the discovery that the bylaws allow the PMC to create sub-projects.
> On Apr 1, 2022, at 2:02 PM, Rick Hillegas <rick.hille...@gmail.com> wrote: > > I would be happy to call a vote on adding SQLLine as a DB sub-project. > However, it seems to me that SQLLine must first pass the hurdles of some > process which verifies its community support and IP. If Craig thinks that > Petri is an adequate fast-track process, then that sounds like the next step. > I'm happy to serve as DB sponsor--if such a thing is relevant to > Petri--provided that this doesn't entail much work. > > On 4/1/22 1:10 PM, Julian Hyde wrote: >> By the way, I know that DB is due to send a report for this month's ASF >> Board meeting. I think it would be appropriate to mention that SQLLine has >> approached the project with a view to joining as a sub-project. >> >> On 2022/04/01 20:07:18 Julian Hyde wrote: >>> Thanks for raising this, Carl. I think the SQLLine project members would be >>> interested in joining the DB project by this means. Given the members' >>> experience with Apache this low-friction approach makes sense. >>> >>> Julian >>> >>> >>> On 2022/03/30 19:25:11 Carl Steinbach wrote: >>>> I'm a longtime user of both Sqlline and Apache DB, and think the former is >>>> a natural fit for the latter. I am also an Apache and IPMC member, and am >>>> eager to help in any way to get this process moving. >>>> >>>> I also wanted to note that the Apache DB Project Bylaws [1] specify the >>>> following process for adding new subprojects: >>>> >>>> "PMC members may propose the creation of new subprojects. Creation of a >>>> new subproject requires approval by 3/4 positve vote with a minimum of 3 >>>> positive votes of the PMC. Abstaining PMC voters do not affect the result. >>>> New code enters the DB project in accordance with ASF policy." >>>> >>>> Rick, is there any chance that you would be willing to propose the >>>> creation of the Sqlline subproject? If so, I'm happy to write up the >>>> proposal. >>>> >>>> Thanks. >>>> >>>> - Carl >>>> >>>> [1] https://db.apache.org/management.html >>>> >>>> On 2021/11/01 19:30:11 Julian Hyde wrote: >>>>> Thanks, Craig. It seems that Petri would be a reasonable route for a >>>>> mature project to become an Apache TLP. As would Incubator, in my opinion. >>>>> >>>>> However, my main questions concern DB. Is DB interested in sub-projects? >>>>> If so, how would one enter DB? >>>>> >>>>> I think that SQLLine would be a good fit in DB, but other than Rick’s >>>>> remarks, I’m not sensing much enthusiasm. >>>>> >>>>> Julian >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> On Nov 1, 2021, at 11:54 AM, Craig Russell <apache....@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> The incubator is indeed how most projects come to Apache. >>>>>> >>>>>> But Petri is a group that is specifically designed to fast-track >>>>>> projects that already know how communities work and are interested in >>>>>> bringing their project to Apache. >>>>>> >>>>>> You can start by looking at the project web site >>>>>> https://petri.apache.org and asking questions on the discuss@ mail list. >>>>>> >>>>>> Warm regards, >>>>>> Craig >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Nov 1, 2021, at 7:03 AM, Rick Hillegas <rick.hille...@gmail.com> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I don't know of any fast-track process for circumventing the incubator. >>>>>>> I have never incubated a project myself, so I would defer to Craig for >>>>>>> guidance. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 11/1/21 12:13 AM, Julian Hyde wrote: >>>>>>>> (Moving sqlline-dev to bcc.) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks for the reply, and the warm welcome, Rick. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> From what I can tell (if Derby, JDO, Cayenne are to be regarded as >>>>>>>> typical), sub-projects enter the DB project via the Incubator, >>>>>>>> sponsored by >>>>>>>> DB, and after completing incubation graduate into DB. And then the >>>>>>>> committers of the incubating sub-project become PMC members of DB. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The Incubation process seems viable for us. I'm sure we can attract a >>>>>>>> few >>>>>>>> more regular contributors during incubation. The ‘teaching people the >>>>>>>> Apache Way’ aspect of the Incubator seems unnecessary, given that >>>>>>>> contributors to SQLLine have plenty of Apache experience; I took >>>>>>>> Calcite >>>>>>>> through incubation, and have mentored a half dozen projects through >>>>>>>> incubation. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> By the way, does that process require a Board vote? Or is it just a >>>>>>>> vote by >>>>>>>> the DB PMC? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Would IP clearance be an alternative way to enter? I guess if we went >>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>> route, we would still have to earn our commit bits & PMC membership >>>>>>>> after >>>>>>>> entering DB, and in the interim, that would make releases a bit >>>>>>>> difficult. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Julian >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Oct 30, 2021, at 12:11 PM, Rick Hillegas <rick.hille...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hey Julian, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I think that the DB project would be a good home for SQLLine. DB >>>>>>>> already >>>>>>>> has a SQL REPL tool called ij, which can be deployed against any JDBC >>>>>>>> database. The ij REPL tool is part of the Derby toolset: >>>>>>>> https://db.apache.org/derby/docs/10.15/tools/ctoolsij34525.html There >>>>>>>> could >>>>>>>> be some interesting cross-pollination between SQLLine and ij. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Craig Russell hangs out at the DB project. He has a wealth of >>>>>>>> experience >>>>>>>> incubating projects and can probably help guide you through the >>>>>>>> process. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> You probably already know much more about the Apache incubator than I >>>>>>>> do, >>>>>>>> given your stewardship of Calcite. At first blush, it sounds as though >>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>> need to sort out some IP issues and attract a couple more active >>>>>>>> contributors in order to pass the incubator hurdles. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I don't know what you need from DB at this point. Maybe Craig can >>>>>>>> weigh in. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Welcome and a big +1 to folding SQLLine into Apache DB. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>>> -Rick >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 10/28/21 8:49 PM, Julian Hyde wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Is the DB project interested in adding sub-projects? And if so, what >>>>>>>> are the criteria for acceptance, and what is the process? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> SQLLine [1] is an open-source project that provides a command-line >>>>>>>> shell for any JDBC data source. It is widely used, including in Apache >>>>>>>> projects such as Drill and Calcite, and even more widely forked (e.g. >>>>>>>> Hive’s Beeline). The project was founded in around 2002 [2] and around >>>>>>>> 2012 I adopted it, moved it to GitHub, and started making releases >>>>>>>> again [3]. We have two regular contributors (myself and Sergey >>>>>>>> Nuyanzin) and several occasional contributors, and make one or two >>>>>>>> releases per year. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> In the SQLLine project, we have recently started a conversation about >>>>>>>> governance, branding and IP ownership. Based on its GitHub URL, >>>>>>>> people tend to assume that it is a single-developer project, and that >>>>>>>> perception may hurt adoption and participation. We have been moving >>>>>>>> towards an ASF-style governance model based on a PMC and committers, >>>>>>>> but we are just short of critical mass. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> We think that SQLLine might be a good fit for the DB project. As a >>>>>>>> Java-based tool for interacting with databases it fits the mission >>>>>>>> perfectly; several of us are active in ASF projects and therefore know >>>>>>>> how things work in Apache. If accepted, we could contribute to the >>>>>>>> running of the DB project (voting on other sub-projects’ releases, for >>>>>>>> example). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Please let us know whether you think it would be a good fit for our >>>>>>>> projects. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Julian >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> [1] https://github.com/julianhyde/sqlline >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> [2] https://sourceforge.net/projects/sqlline/files/sqlline/ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> [3] https://github.com/julianhyde/sqlline/blob/master/HISTORY.md >>>>>>>> >>>>>> Craig L Russell >>>>>> c...@apache.org >>>>>> >>>>> >
