The problems that you cite were already cited long before (nearly a year) in my proposal to “blow the whole thing up” as you state:
http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/IncubatorDeconstructionProposal And we can keep spinning around the target, growing the “IPMC”, and trying to keep whatever “it” is together, but you will find like I have stated ad naseum that: 1. the documentation on *what* to do for incoming projects is already there and in good shape. Nothing prevents folks from continuing to work on it, even without an “IPMC” 2. the process on *what* to do for incoming projects is already there and in good shape. Nothing prevents folks from continuing to work on it, even without an “IPMC” 3. the main issue that keeps arising, related to mentoring, will keep arising if we keep growing this ethereal presence that’s the “IPMC”, instead of simply making projects under the review of the board monthly, quarterly, etc. The board doesn’t go AWOL. The board can’t b/c the checks and balances are in place to keep them around: the membership; the foundation; the reviewing process and the way the foundation has existed since even *before* the Incubator. And it’s within the board’s charter to be in this reviewing phase/entity that is really needed and that continues to appear and disappear within the IPMC. In addition all of those new great folks we are now unlike before adding to the IPMC can simply be part of e.g., ComDev, as folks who “get” the foundation, or simply be strong ASF members, etc., who can hang around on the incoming projects. An incoming project doesn’t have a person with experience reviewing Apache releases on the incoming committee? Let that be discussed and caught, and then adapted on the incoming proposal *to the board*. Yes there was a time that the Incubator didn’t exist, and *gasp* the foundation still ran fine. It seems to me there are always a set of folks that think the Incubator PMC needs to exist in order for the documentation, the process, and the *care* from the people who care about the things related to release management; legal help; community help, etc., to exist. To me, that’s ridiculous. That stuff will still exist. In fact, it can even exist in a concrete entity - have it be the ComDev PMC as I originally suggested in my proposal to, *gasp*, “blow the whole thing up”. And finally, I guess for those folks who think that PMCs should always be around, we should probably still have Jakarta, and other PMCs - heck let’s never have PMCs go away - I mean, we still have Java projects, right? Cheers, Chris ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Chris Mattmann, Ph.D. Chief Architect Instrument Software and Science Data Systems Section (398) NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA Office: 168-519, Mailstop: 168-527 Email: chris.a.mattm...@nasa.gov WWW: http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Adjunct Associate Professor, Computer Science Department University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ -----Original Message----- From: Bertrand Delacretaz <bdelacre...@apache.org> Reply-To: "general@incubator.apache.org" <general@incubator.apache.org> Date: Tuesday, December 30, 2014 at 1:09 AM To: Incubator General <general@incubator.apache.org> Subject: Re: Process over Ego [Was: Re: Incubator report sign-off >On Tue, Dec 30, 2014 at 12:54 AM, Stian Soiland-Reyes <st...@apache.org> >wrote: >> ...It would be sad if this Incubator Community disappears in the >>proposed >> move of incubating project to be reporting directly to the ASF Board... > >With my board member hat on, you can count on a strong -1 from me on >that suggestion. I suspect I'm not the only board member with that >opinion, so if people actually think of making this happen it might be >worth polling the board first to avoid wasting time discussing that >option. > >Once again, IMO focusing on actual concrete problems like we started >listing at https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/IncubatorIssues2013 would >be much more productive than blowing the whole thing up in the hope >that it will somewhat re-materialize in a better form. > >-Bertrand > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org >For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org >
