I have seen top level projects, with majority of PMCs come from paid employees of a single company, suffer of growth and development when the employees of such company stop contributing to the project.
Going back to Apache Ignite, since it is the main core of GridGain I doubt the project will be abandoned, unless the whole company shift gear or go bankrupt. The proposed PMCs also includes the mentors, which I could bring some check and balance to the project, and I know they have done great job bringing the Ignite initial committers to the Apache way. - Henry On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 2:29 PM, Daniel Gruno <humbed...@apache.org> wrote: > While Roy is indeed a smart man, there is no BDFL in the ASF. > Quoting Roy out of context is not a Hail Mary you can just throw out there > when someone disagrees with you. > > Several people, including several IPMC members have expressed concerns. > Address them properly instead of insisting on your way or the high way. > > The question of diversity in this case is not "are we enough > men/women/whatever", the question here is "is there a single corporate > entity with a deciding vote in the project?". > > What I am concerned with here is the responses to this. Instead of saying > "We don't believe that to be the case", the PPMC is saying "there's no rule > against that!" as if there _is_ an issue but it's being swept under the rug. > > With regards, > Daniel. > > On 2015-07-21 23:19, Roman Shaposhnik wrote: >> >> Please re-read the quote from Roy: >> >> "There is no diversity requirement at the ASF. There is a behavior >> requirement for graduation and a behavior requirement for TLPs. >> We must not confuse the two." >> >> and later >> >> "I'd urge folks to fix the docs, but I know where that leads ... >> and I have no cycles to spare." >> >> Thanks, >> Roman. >> >> >> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 1:55 PM, jan i <j...@apache.org> wrote: >>> >>> On 21 July 2015 at 22:48, Daniel Gruno <humbed...@apache.org> wrote: >>> >>>> On 07/21/2015 10:39 PM, Ted Dunning wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Present time diversity or lack of same is not a bar to graduation. >>>> >>>> So we should just scrap the bit in the Incubator policy that says "A >>>> major criterion for graduation is to have developed an open and diverse >>>> meritocratic community."? >>>> >>>> I think not. >>>> >>> If diversity does not matter, then please explain these references: >>> http://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html >>> >>> Diversity of committership is important for two main reasons: >>> >>> - >>> >>> it gives long term stability to the project development: in fact, >>> with >>> all the developers affiliated to the same entity, the chance of >>> seeing all >>> of them moving away from the project at the same time is much greater >>> than >>> with a community of individuals affiliated to unrelated entities. >>> - >>> >>> it gives a greater variety of technical visions: something that >>> guarantees a better adherence to environment and user's needs, thus a >>> higher change of finding real-life use of the software. >>> >>> http://www.apache.org/foundation/board/reporting >>> >>> - >>> >>> PMC and committer diversity >>> >>> A healthy project should survive the departure of any single >>> contributor >>> or employer of contributors. Healthy projects also serve needs of >>> many >>> parties. Thus the ASF prefers that projects have diverse PMCs and >>> committerships. *IF* the PMC has any concerns or perceives a problem >>> with the diversity, then the report should include information on the >>> number of unique organizations currently represented in its PMC and >>> committership. >>> >>> If diversity did not matter for TLPs, the above explanation and >>> guidelines >>> are false >>> >>> >>> I think not. >>> >>> >>> rgds >>> >>> jan I. >>> >>> >>>> >>>>> What is important is that the committers and PMC of the new project >>>>> understand how to make releases and are building community. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 1:30 PM, Pierre Smits <pierre.sm...@gmail.com> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Thanks, Konstantin, for the enlighting quote. And the link leading to >>>>>> nowhere. >>>>>> >>>>>> If we take away the names of the mentors from the list (Branko, Roman >>>> >>>> and >>>>>> >>>>>> yours) as well as those in other projects (Evans) from the list of >>>> >>>> intended >>>>>> >>>>>> project members, the situation even grows worse. Then the number grows >>>> >>>> to >>>>>> >>>>>> 77%. That doesn't look promising regarding independence, and neither >>>>>> regarding healthiness. >>>>>> >>>>>> Best regards, >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Pierre Smits >>>>>> >>>>>> *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>* >>>>>> Services & Solutions for Cloud- >>>>>> Based Manufacturing, Professional >>>>>> Services and Retail & Trade >>>>>> http://www.orrtiz.com >>>>>> >>>>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 8:53 PM, Konstantin Boudnik <c...@apache.org> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> The so-called diversity requirement has been discussed on this list >>>> >>>> for a >>>>>>> >>>>>>> number of times. Most recent is the graduation of Flume project (back >>>> >>>> in >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 2012). Here's a quote from that thread (kudos to Roy; for those who >>>> >>>> want >>>>>>> >>>>>>> to look it up in the archives MessageId is >>>>>>> 73db2e64-87d5-4dd5-91fb-403464895...@gbiv.com): >>>>>>> >>>>>>> [quote] >>>>>>> There is no diversity requirement at the ASF. There is a behavior >>>>>>> requirement for graduation and a behavior requirement for TLPs. >>>>>>> We must not confuse the two. If the Incubator says that there is a >>>>>>> diversity requirement for graduation, ignore it (or at least figure >>>>>>> out what the docs were supposed to say and then do that). >>>>>>> I'd urge folks to fix the docs, but I know where that leads ... >>>>>>> and I have no cycles to spare. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> A diversity requirement would mean that a person's employment >>>>>>> status impacts their ability to participate here. IOW, it would >>>>>>> create a perverse incentive for them not to be employed. >>>>>>> [/quote] >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>> Cos >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 05:55PM, Pierre Smits wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> It seems that 63% of the podling's PMC is affiliated to 1 >>>>>>>> organisation >>>>>>>> (Gridgrain). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Have sufficient grounds been covered to ensure diversity and >>>>>> >>>>>> independece? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Best regards, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Pierre Smits >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 5:13 PM, Dmitriy Setrakyan < >>>>>>> >>>>>>> dsetrak...@apache.org> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 4:08 AM, amareshwarisr . < >>>>>>> >>>>>>> amareshw...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Seems the DESCRIPTION_AND_SCOPE of the project is set to " the >>>>>>> >>>>>>> automated >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> and managed flow of information between systems." >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I dont see any such on project website - >>>>>>>>>> http://ignite.incubator.apache.org/ >>>>>>>>>> Looks like a copy from NIFI's graduation discussion - >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/201506.mbox/%3CCALJK9a4PD%2B3qGGQbbHHyLfY8Ut9BP9VyEDwtnZDSWjpMKiwk9w%40mail.gmail.com%3E >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>>> You might want to correct it. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Yup, copy-n-paste never works :) Corrected below. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Correct me if description is fine and I'm wrong in understanding >>>>>> >>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> description >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Thanks >>>>>>>>>> Amareshwari >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 5:06 AM, Dmitriy Setrakyan < >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> dsetrak...@apache.org> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Hello Apache Incubator, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> At the suggestion of our mentors the Ignite community established >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> consensus >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> and held a successful vote with 14 +1 votes in favor of proposing >>>>>>>>>>> graduation to TLP. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Vote thread: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>> http://apache-ignite-developers.2346864.n4.nabble.com/VOTE-Graduate-Apache-Ignite-from-Incubation-td1539.html >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Summary of the vote results: >>>>>>>>>>> +1 (non-binding) = 14 >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> 1. Yakov Zhdanov (PMC) >>>>>>>>>>> 2. Gianfranco Murador (PMC) >>>>>>>>>>> 3. Ira Vasilinets (PMC) >>>>>>>>>>> 4. Nikolai Tichinov (PMC) >>>>>>>>>>> 5. Semyon Boikov (PMC) >>>>>>>>>>> 6. Sergi Vladykin (PMC) >>>>>>>>>>> 7. Alexey Goncharuk (PMC) >>>>>>>>>>> 8. Ognen Duzlevski (PMC) >>>>>>>>>>> 9. Valentin Kulichenko (PMC) >>>>>>>>>>> 10. Nikita Ivanov (PMC) >>>>>>>>>>> 11. Dmitriy Setrakyan (PMC) >>>>>>>>>>> 12. Andrey Novikov (Committer) >>>>>>>>>>> 13. Alexey Kuznetsov (Committer) >>>>>>>>>>> 14. Milap Wadwa >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> We’d like to initiate this discussion/proposal to establish a >>>>>>> >>>>>>> consensus >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> within the incubator and if appropriate will initiate a vote. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Below is our proposed resolution: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Thank you >>>>>>>>>>> Dmitriy Setrakyan(on behalf of the Apache Ignite PPMC) >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> SUBJECT: Establish the Apache Ignite TLP >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it to be in the best >>>>>>>>>>> interests of the Foundation and consistent with the >>>>>>>>>>> Foundation's purpose to establish a Project Management >>>>>>>>>>> Committee charged with the creation and maintenance of >>>>>>>>>>> open-source software, for distribution at no charge to >>>>>>>>>>> the public, related to the automated and managed flow of >>>>>>>>>>> information between systems. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Should be: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> --------- >>>>>>>>> "related to delivering an In-Memory Data Fabric - a >>>>>>>>> high-performance, >>>>>>>>> integrated and distributed in-memory platform for computing and >>>>>>> >>>>>>> transacting >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> on large-scale data sets in real-time" >>>>>>>>> -------- >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that a Project Management >>>>>>>>>>> Committee (PMC), to be known as the "Apache Ignite Project", >>>>>>>>>>> be and hereby is established pursuant to Bylaws of the >>>>>>>>>>> Foundation; and be it further >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> RESOLVED, that the Apache Ignite Project be and hereby is >>>>>>>>>>> responsible for the creation and maintenance of software >>>>>>>>>>> related to the automated and managed flow of information >>>>>>>>>>> between systems and be it further >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> RESOLVED, that the office of "Vice President, Apache Ignite" >>>>>> >>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> and hereby is created, the person holding such office to >>>>>>>>>>> serve at the direction of the Board of Directors as the >>>>>>>>>>> chair >>>>>>>>>>> of the Apache Ignite Project, and to have primary >>>>>>> >>>>>>> responsibility >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> for management of the projects within the scope of >>>>>>>>>>> responsibility of the Apache Ignite Project; and be it >>>>>> >>>>>> further >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> RESOLVED, that the persons listed immediately below be and >>>>>>>>>>> hereby are appointed to serve as the initial members of the >>>>>>>>>>> Apache Ignite Project: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Semyon Boikov (sboi...@apache.org) >>>>>>>>>>> Konstantin Boudnik (c...@apache.org) >>>>>>>>>>> Branko Čibej (br...@apache.org) >>>>>>>>>>> Ognen Duzlevski (mak...@apache.org) >>>>>>>>>>> Sergey Evdokimov (sevdoki...@apache.org) >>>>>>>>>>> Alexey Goncharuk (agoncha...@apache.org) >>>>>>>>>>> Nikita Ivanov (nivano...@apache.org) >>>>>>>>>>> Sergey Khisamov (s...@apache.org) >>>>>>>>>>> Valentin Kulichenko (vkuliche...@apache.org) >>>>>>>>>>> Alexey Kuznetsov (akuznet...@apache.org) >>>>>>>>>>> Gianfranco Murador (mura...@apache.org) >>>>>>>>>>> Andrey Novikov (anovi...@apache.org) >>>>>>>>>>> Vladimir Ozerov (voze...@apache.org) >>>>>>>>>>> Dmitriy Setrakyan (dsetrak...@apache.org) >>>>>>>>>>> Roman Shaposhnik (r...@apache.org) >>>>>>>>>>> Ilya Sterin (iste...@apache.org) >>>>>>>>>>> Nikolai Tikhonov (ntikho...@apache.org) >>>>>>>>>>> Irina Vasilinets (ivasilin...@apache.org) >>>>>>>>>>> Anton Vinogradov (a...@apache.org) >>>>>>>>>>> Sergey Vladykin (svlady...@apache.org) >>>>>>>>>>> Evans Ye (evan...@apache.org) >>>>>>>>>>> Yakov Zhdanov (yzhda...@apache.org) >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that >>>>>>>>>>> Dmitriy Setrakyan be appointed to the office of Vice >>>>>> >>>>>> President, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Apache Ignite, to serve in accordance with and subject to >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> direction of the Board of Directors and the Bylaws of the >>>>>>>>>>> Foundation until death, resignation, retirement, removal or >>>>>>>>>>> disqualification, or until a successor is appointed; >>>>>>>>>>> and be it further >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> RESOLVED, that the initial Apache Ignite PMC be and hereby >>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>> tasked with the creation of a set of bylaws intended to >>>>>>>>>>> encourage open development and increased participation in >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> Apache Ignite Project; and be it further >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> RESOLVED, that the Apache Ignite Project be and hereby >>>>>>>>>>> is tasked with the migration and rationalization of the >>>>>> >>>>>> Apache >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Incubator Ignite podling; and be it further >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> RESOLVED, that all responsibilities pertaining to the Apache >>>>>>>>>>> Incubator Ignite podling encumbered upon the Apache >>>>>>>>>>> Incubator >>>>>>>>>>> Project are hereafter discharged. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org >>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>> >>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org >>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org >>>> >>>> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org >> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org >> > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
