My belief is that committer != PMC is the ideal choice, based on my long history of watching communities at the ASF. It allows for onboarding committers rapidly and with a lower bar. That helps to draw them further into the community, reduces the workload of others (who would otherwise need to review/apply their work), and provides a mechanism to review bringing them onto the PMC.
As Greg Reddin notes, separation of the two roles provides a mechanism for distinguishing between "enable contributions" and "enable governance". As an old-timer, I've observed (unfortunately) too many problems in governance. An extra step is advisable (with a higher bar, while keeping the low bar for contributions). Cheers, -g On Fri, Nov 6, 2015 at 11:34 AM, Dennis E. Hamilton <dennis.hamil...@acm.org > wrote: > I think there is a difference between what TLPs do and what the > recommended approach for Podlings is. > > My impression, based on limited podling experience, is that the default > tends to be PPMC == committer. > > Thanks for raising the notion of looking at why committers are *not* moved > to the PMC of a TLP after some period of time, though. My question, as a > PMC member, would be whether or not we are holding the reins too tight at > the expense of both community and sustainability. An useful danger sign, > that. > > - Dennis > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Greg Reddin [mailto:gred...@gmail.com] > > Sent: Friday, November 6, 2015 06:22 > > To: general@incubator.apache.org > > Subject: Re: Concerning Sentry: A disagreement over the Apache Way and > > graduation > > > > On Fri, Nov 6, 2015 at 7:58 AM, Rich Bowen <rbo...@rcbowen.com> wrote: > > > On 11/05/2015 12:02 AM, Joe Schaefer wrote: > > >> Committership is the right to do work on the project. PMC membership > > is the > > >> right to participate in governance. People left in the nebulous > > state > > >> between > > >> committership and PMC membership for long periods of time more than > > likely > > >> will give up in frustration for not being trusted enough to govern > > their > > >> own work. > > > > > > > > > Most of the older projects at the Foundation do not have PMC == > > > Committer. Notably, httpd. The notion that committers are > > automatically > > > PMC is a fairly new innovation. As it happens, it's an innovation that > > I > > > wholeheartedly support and recommend, but it's a minority of projects > > > that have this policy. If you follow board reports, you'll notice that > > > PMC additions and Committer additions are seldom coincident. > > > > In further support of Joe's point, for most of the projects I've been > > involved with, the PMC promotion was almost automatic and occurred > > within about 6 months of committership. The committer-only period was > > just a probationary period to make sure a person was not going to > > abuse his/her privileges. An invite to committership comes with an > > unspoken assumption that we want you to help govern the project, but > > let's start with giving you access. I don't know that I ever saw > > anyone stay as committer-only for an extended period of time. > > > > Greg > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > >
