I'm very convinced :-) I think the Netbeans proposal is ready for a [VOTE]!
On 22 September 2016 at 13:57, Wade Chandler <cons...@wadechandler.com> wrote: > >> On Sep 22, 2016, at 08:27, Shane Curcuru <a...@shanecurcuru.org> wrote: >> >> Jochen Wiedmann wrote on 9/22/16 1:43 AM: >>> On Thu, Sep 22, 2016 at 7:18 AM, Roman Shaposhnik <ro...@shaposhnik.org> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Still, the question remain -- for somebody like that, what would be a >>>> criteria >>>> to be added as a committer after the project enters incubation? >>> >>> Projects decision. >> >> Exactly so. This would be a podling just like every other podling, and >> the IPMC would expect the PPMC to start operating like an Apache >> project. That is, when new people come to the podling and contribute >> work, and help the work of the podling, that after a time the PPMC will >> discuss them, then vote them in as new committers. >> >> Past merit (i.e. past contributions) is a great help to a new >> contributor to a project, both because it's easier to get started, and >> because the community already has a feel for how they act and can help. >> But it in no way IMO directly leads to current merit. Old contributors >> normally would be voted in as committers only once they actually start >> doing new work on the project. > > Perhaps we need to clarify what you mean by “old contributor” … Do you mean > those currently contributing to the imported project, those who have > contributed at some time in the past, but not in X days/months, or anyone not > on the initial committer list? If the latter, then why would this be true for > a current OSS project coming to ASF? If this is exactly the case, then more > emphasis is put on the initial committer list IMO, and that seems an > unnecessary distraction, and an artificial limit, but if it must be that way > it must, and if not, then great, but please clarify. > > I ask this because I recently contributed some things for Groovy support, and > intend to work quite a bit on those features. I have contributed quite a bit > to the form (UI editor), J2EE, and Java SE modules in the past. I don’t want > to suddenly be hindered just because the project moves to the ASF where I > have to “start over”; I have invested quite a number of years into NetBeans > and it’s community. > >> On Sep 22, 2016, at 07:00, Stian Soiland-Reyes <st...@apache.org> wrote: >> >> Agree - but the initial committer list is also an opportunity to show >> you really mean open development, and that it's not just business as >> usual with Friends & Family on the list. >> > > Understood, but the impression still has to be on the community all the rules > of merit apply regardless of perception. I have faith Gj and many I know on > that initial list will make sure anyone who has made solid code contributions > to NB, who also want to contribute in the ASF, will be fast tracked per prior > NB community decisions. We are operating off this assumption now; community > and Oracle included per my understanding. > >> One of the freedoms a project gains from moving to ASF is (somewhat) >> relief from institutional political considerations. A new intern at a >> company would no longer just be given carte blance write access >> without first engaging with the whole community and earning merit >> through contributions. Of course each community decides how high or >> low the bar should be to earn committership - but the bar should be >> the same for anyone. >> > I 100% agree with this. I think it is definitely that the rules have to apply > to everyone equally including employees of a company including the donor. I > don’t imagine someone who falls outside categories of merit in the current NB > process now should suddenly be committers at ASF. Committers should be > committers. Those who were well on their way to earn committer status should > be considered, and it should be rare they are not promoted. Those not > committing code or submitting patches now, should start from the premise they > have to earn committer rights, and the project should enforce that as a > minimum; merit isn’t about free trophies or we’d all have doctorates or be in > the NFL or NBA :-D > >> >> I found for several podlings that people (myself included) who were >> perhaps dormant "contributors" before the Incubator 'woke up' after >> being added as an equal peer on the initial list. The beginning of a >> podling; while sometimes struggling a bit with bootstrapping, is also >> a chance for a project to review many of its practices and to build >> common ownership - reduce the "us and them" feeling. >> > > Sure; IMHO a sane committer of old should be a sane committer of new; if they > want to be involved. My understanding in the current NB processes that is > true now. Certainly in an OSS world people come and work as they can, and > sometimes they can do more than other times. Sometimes they necessarily have > to become dormant; children, jobs, friends, life… In the NB community we > understand this and respect it; a work life balance. > >> I think Netbeans has the balance somewhat right - but I would hope >> there would be more engagement on their existing lists to more openly >> invite anyone who wants to join; or at least make it clear that the >> whole of the community (read: mailing list) gets to influence project >> decisions. >> > > Yes, everyone on the lists “influences” the project now, but not everyone on > the mailing list gets “committer” rights or the same influence; even in > Apache projects that I have seen. We have a merit based process for that now. > In the ASF us non-Oracle employee committers should then gain a higher level > of influence as it becomes community driven versus single entity driven; we > certainly have to step up though! … like Spiderman’s Uncle Ben said … great > power; great responsibility. > > My assumption or expectation perhaps is roughly (and I imagine it will be > close) 1) if you were a committer to NB, per its already existing rules, then > you are in 2) if you were already submitting patches to “show you know what > you are doing” per the current rules, then you are in 3) if you were not an > active contributor, then you have to step up and show merit. This essentially > models the current NB process, and per my involvement with different Apache > projects over the years, is roughly like a lot of them. > > Thanks, > > Wade > > > > =================== > > Wade Chandler > e: cons...@wadechandler.com > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > -- Stian Soiland-Reyes http://orcid.org/0000-0001-9842-9718 --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
