++1. I agree w/ Rich and Roman
> On Jun 23, 2019, at 11:25 PM, Roman Shaposhnik <ro...@shaposhnik.org> wrote: > > On Sat, Jun 22, 2019 at 3:31 PM Rich Bowen <rbo...@rcbowen.com > <mailto:rbo...@rcbowen.com>> wrote: >> >> A couple of thoughts: > > And a couple of thoughts on top of that. > >> Podlings are not permitted to call themselves "Apache Foo" because they are >> not yet full Apache projects. > > Correct. The I way I see this thread is this: *when it comes to > releases*, there's > always been two camps in Incubator. One thinks that Incubator is a TLP just > like Apache Commons that happens to produce release artifacts that have > nothing in common (just like Apache Commons' JXPath has very little to do > with Compress and). A second camp thinks that Incubator is actually a special > construct within a foundation (after all, if it was just like Apache Commons > why > would we make them put DISCLAIMER into release tarballs?). > > It seems that David is closer to the 1st camp, and Rich and I are > closer to the 2nd. > > Looking at the community benefits, I really think we should acknowledge that > Incubator is a special construct and optimize that special construct > for a particular > outcome: which is effectiveness of the graduation process. > >> While in the incubator we should expect podlibgs to fail at the rules. >> They're new to them and many of them feel arbitrary, even capricious, to >> those coming in from outside. We should make it safe to fail until they are >> ready to graduate. We should nurture them as long as they are moving >> towards that goal. > > Yup. > >> I cannot disagree with your reading of our resolutions. But I wonder if >> that reality is producing good citizen projects or a bunch of resentful >> people following rules they don't understand or embrace because they know >> they have to. >> >> Zipkin is only the latest project which clearly didn't get it and has left >> angry. I would rather a project realize that they don't fit and be able to >> leave with their dignity without having also to leave hating what we stand >> for. >> >> I want our new graduates to love and understand the ASF not merely tolerate >> it. >> >> I want the incubator to respond to failure with gentle correction rather >> than scoldings. >> >> Specifically I think podlings should be able to produce releases that are >> not asf complient and have them clearly labeled as such. Because they are >> not TLPs yet and so cannot be held to the same standard. This must be >> accompanied by a movement towards being a TLP, not some eternal incubation. > > With my IPMC member hat on -- huge +1 to the above. > > With my VP Legal hat on: I have no dog in this race. The IPMC needs to make > a *business* (well, community in this case) decision and then we can work > with a risk profile of that decision. > > Like I said -- the decision to make is: 1st vs. 2nd camp. > > Thanks, > Roman. > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > <mailto:general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org> > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > <mailto:general-h...@incubator.apache.org>
