Peter,
So are you proposing to become a log4j committer? Regards, Ceki --- Peter Donald <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Mon, 7 Jan 2002 09:15, Jon Scott Stevens wrote: > > Of course it is easier to start from scratch to > invent yet another > > validation framework. This is where I see another > failure of Jakarta. > > People only go with the easiest route without any > concern about the long > > term mess they are making. > > Thats because thats what the PMC encourages (you > included). If you recall at > one stage LogKit was proposed as a jakarta project - > before Log4j was present > but the PMC decided to bring Log4j to jakarta > instead. When commons was > started it was because Avalon did not have the right > "advertising". Both of > these things were a vote by the PMC to reinvent > rather than reuse. > > The best way to describe it was something I think > Craig said, something like > - it doesn't much matter if there is an existing > project with same aims, what > matters is what committers are willing to commit to. > > It is much more sexier to rewrite something from > scratch than it is to work > with other peoples code. Why is struts a project? > Wouldn't it have been more > productive to the Apache community overall to live > side-by-side with turbine > (same mailing lists and project etc). Essentially > struts would have been a > complete revolution - having them together would > have ensured a much higher > level of cross pollination. Why is Log4j at jakarta? > Wouldn't be better if it > and LogKit were merged? What about the regex > engines? > > > I feel like Jakarta is just going down this path > of having a bazillion > > different implementations and versions of the same > thing and it is only > > getting worse. > > It is going to get far far far worse - everyone > encourages it from the PMC > down. Reinvent rather than reuse or so the chant > goes. > > > Commons was supposed to help clean that up by > providing a > > central location, however all I see is it making > it worse because people > > are just re-inventing what already exists in other > projects instead of > > using existing projects as the basis. > > Correct. Commons is also fun because people not > involved with the code have > voting rights over it. However I do recall you +1'ed > it even when I said it > would end up like this ;) > > > I'm starting to realize that Jakarta has grown to > becoming a place where > > people only scratch their own itches and I agree > that that is the basis for > > open source. However, we have no overall > direction. We all have our own > > opinions and spend days and days discussing them > and when it comes down to > > putting code into CVS, people do whatever they > want anyway because there is > > no set of checks and balances to put some sort of > higher level control over > > things. > > Thats because people don't want it. More than half > the people at jakarta are > egomaniacs. Not that this is a bad thing - it can be > very productive but very > few people want to work together because they can > get more glory doing it > themselves. > > > People keep saying that Jakarta isn't broken. > Well, if it isn't broken, > > then how come we have so many people doing their > own thing and not working > > together? Jakarta is supposed to be a group > collective, however it is > > becoming nothing more than another Sourceforge. > > If thats what you consider broken then it is broken > and it is going to get > much more broken. The only way to change this is to > to vote it. Next time > someone raises a vote to duplicate an existing > project don't +1 it. And don't > just complain when someone duplicates a part of > turbine. > > I would to love to see more working together but I > can't see it happening. > People are not willing to work together - even for > basic things. When I asked > you to change turbines build system to not conflict > with patterns in other > projects your response was something along the > lines. We used ant first, this > is how you should do it, you are wrong - and thats > basically when I stopped > trying to get people to have standard build file > format. > > You say you want to "fix" jakarta then prove it - > lets start working together > to get even the basic infrastructure common where > they interface with other > projects. So the ball is in your court now ;) > > BTW turbine is/has uploaded components to commons > that are duplicates of > Avalon functionality. ie the exact same thing that > happened with validators > except that turbine is the "purp" rather than the > "victim" - so should I wail > at you now ? ;) > > -- > Cheers, > > Pete > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > "Science is like sex: sometimes something useful > comes out, > but that is not the reason we are doing it" -- > Richard Feynman > -------------------------------------------------------------- > > -- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: > <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > For additional commands, e-mail: > <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > ===== --------- Ceki - http://qos.ch __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! 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