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Peter Donald <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> On Tue, 5 Feb 2002 11:38, Andrew C. Oliver wrote:
> > > Are you upset at the way Java is being handled by SUN?
> > >
> > > Do you feel lied to about the fact that SUN is still keeping Java
> > > proprietary even after they promised us for *years* that it would be
> > > standardized?
> > >
> > > Are you looking towards .NET/C# as an alternative but still optimistic
> > > about Java?
> >
> > Heck no. .NET/c# why would I want to use an even more proprietary thing
> > to get back at SUN? Heck no.
... hm.. this discussion could be on the list... buy anyway.
> You sure it is more proprietary?
I believe that C# and the CLR is less proprietary than Java. It has been pushed
through a standards committee and there are Open Source implementations coming
up around the corner.
> I believe our PMC head actually sits as head on one of the standardization
> efforts for C#s core libraries. With the recent change to BSDL/MIT licensing
> with one of the opensource runtimes things are starting to look interesting.
Yeah... I have to admit C# and the CLR looks good. I think that if Java were
Open Source we could combine it with the CLR (or at least some of the concepts)
to get the best worlds.
That won't happen unless Java is Open Source.
> Technically there are things about C#/CLR/etc that are far superior to Java
> (much better meta-data support, no JNI pain, a nicer GUI setup, support for C
> based languages, etc) and theres also things that suck (hard to optimize
> bytecode, crapola linking model, etc).
yeah... and if Java were Open Source we could see that some of the good things
from the CLR were adopted within Java.
> *if* there was an open, semi-stable platform then I am sure a fair chunk of
> people would flock to it - especially if it is under a nice license like MIT
> that both the BSD and GPL people seem to like.
yeah... I TOTALLY agree.
I just don't want to have to throw every Jakarta project away just because SUN
can't see the light.
> I don't think Sun will lose on high-end or the embedded device market but
> everywhere else I think is debatable ;)
Hm... .NET is being ported to BSD and Linux. I don't know about that.
> A lot of people I know who are java advocates have seriously looked at
> swapping to C# - at least for the desktop. Given how weak the C# runtime is
> now (at least compared to java) this I find interesting.
I haven't looked at the C# gui stuff. I still don't think there is a solid GUI
framework unless you use C++/QT/KDE
> If JDK1.5 comes out in time with all its very kool features I think Java still
> has a fighting chance ... maybe.
It would have a fighting chance. JavaOne is in march and I am hoping that SUN
is planning on having an announcement then. Of course I was expecting an
announcement last year and the year before that and they never came. :)
> If the J2SE was opensourced then it would almost win by default. However Sun
> is nowhere near as agile as MS - still too much of a slow hardware company -
> so they will almost certainly fall down in that area.
The Open Source community would PASTE Microsoft if we could develop the JDK
with our own rules.
> It will be interesting to see how IBM reacts. They have some damn fine VM
> people there, if they were to go the C# path and bring along all the Linux
> peeps then .... who knows ;)
<snip/>
maybe... without some type of accepted community or steward I think that
everyone would just blow it off. GCJ looks cool but if everyone things Java is
dead then there won't be any use for it.
... this stuff really makes me ill :(
Kevin
- --
Kevin A. Burton ( [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] )
Location - San Francisco, CA, Cell - 415.595.9965
Jabber - [EMAIL PROTECTED], Web - http://relativity.yi.org/
There are 6 billion people living on this planet, 5.4 billion have not yet
chosen an Operating System
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