Here is the kicker. If java were opensource, Microsoft would produce a fork and so would IBM and etc.. Sun learned the wrong lessons from UNIX though so they'd never let this happen.
Here is the bottomline: Let them fork, let the best one win. There are now 3 wide-spread use UNIXes: Solaris, HPUX, and the (Linux/FreeBSD/etc) (why did I lump them? Because they mostly share the same everything cross compiled except the Kernel...I'm sure I'm completely wrong your religion is better but *shrug*). Sun's fork could focus on write once read everywhere. MS on making you use MS. IBM on making you use IBM stuff, etc. -Andy On Tue, 2002-02-05 at 04:16, Kevin A. Burton wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Peter Donald <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > On Tue, 5 Feb 2002 11:38, Andrew C. Oliver wrote: > > > > Are you upset at the way Java is being handled by SUN? > > > > > > > > Do you feel lied to about the fact that SUN is still keeping Java > > > > proprietary even after they promised us for *years* that it would be > > > > standardized? > > > > > > > > Are you looking towards .NET/C# as an alternative but still optimistic > > > > about Java? > > > > > > Heck no. .NET/c# why would I want to use an even more proprietary thing > > > to get back at SUN? Heck no. > > ... hm.. this discussion could be on the list... buy anyway. > > > You sure it is more proprietary? > > I believe that C# and the CLR is less proprietary than Java. It has been pushed > through a standards committee and there are Open Source implementations coming > up around the corner. > > > I believe our PMC head actually sits as head on one of the standardization > > efforts for C#s core libraries. With the recent change to BSDL/MIT licensing > > with one of the opensource runtimes things are starting to look interesting. > > Yeah... I have to admit C# and the CLR looks good. I think that if Java were > Open Source we could combine it with the CLR (or at least some of the concepts) > to get the best worlds. > > That won't happen unless Java is Open Source. > > > Technically there are things about C#/CLR/etc that are far superior to Java > > (much better meta-data support, no JNI pain, a nicer GUI setup, support for C > > based languages, etc) and theres also things that suck (hard to optimize > > bytecode, crapola linking model, etc). > > yeah... and if Java were Open Source we could see that some of the good things > from the CLR were adopted within Java. > > > *if* there was an open, semi-stable platform then I am sure a fair chunk of > > people would flock to it - especially if it is under a nice license like MIT > > that both the BSD and GPL people seem to like. > > yeah... I TOTALLY agree. > > I just don't want to have to throw every Jakarta project away just because SUN > can't see the light. > > > I don't think Sun will lose on high-end or the embedded device market but > > everywhere else I think is debatable ;) > > Hm... .NET is being ported to BSD and Linux. I don't know about that. > > > A lot of people I know who are java advocates have seriously looked at > > swapping to C# - at least for the desktop. Given how weak the C# runtime is > > now (at least compared to java) this I find interesting. > > I haven't looked at the C# gui stuff. I still don't think there is a solid GUI > framework unless you use C++/QT/KDE > > > If JDK1.5 comes out in time with all its very kool features I think Java still > > has a fighting chance ... maybe. > > It would have a fighting chance. JavaOne is in march and I am hoping that SUN > is planning on having an announcement then. Of course I was expecting an > announcement last year and the year before that and they never came. :) > > > If the J2SE was opensourced then it would almost win by default. However Sun > > is nowhere near as agile as MS - still too much of a slow hardware company - > > so they will almost certainly fall down in that area. > > The Open Source community would PASTE Microsoft if we could develop the JDK > with our own rules. > > > It will be interesting to see how IBM reacts. They have some damn fine VM > > people there, if they were to go the C# path and bring along all the Linux > > peeps then .... who knows ;) > <snip/> > > maybe... without some type of accepted community or steward I think that > everyone would just blow it off. GCJ looks cool but if everyone things Java is > dead then there won't be any use for it. > > ... this stuff really makes me ill :( > > Kevin > > - -- > Kevin A. Burton ( [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) > Location - San Francisco, CA, Cell - 415.595.9965 > Jabber - [EMAIL PROTECTED], Web - http://relativity.yi.org/ > > There are 6 billion people living on this planet, 5.4 billion have not yet > chosen an Operating System > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) > Comment: Get my public key at: http://relativity.yi.org/pgpkey.txt > > iD8DBQE8X6MGAwM6xb2dfE0RArxpAJ42QSOiAUJxQK2l5waIKc7VzuPdywCfYVGy > 5r+IKu62NuZiSIuHVfOG1PE= > =yg9S > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > -- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > For additional commands, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > -- www.superlinksoftware.com www.sourceforge.net/projects/poi - port of Excel format to java http://developer.java.sun.com/developer/bugParade/bugs/4487555.html - fix java generics! The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote. -Ambassador Kosh -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> For additional commands, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
