On June 26, 2020 7:13:07 AM EDT, Rich Freeman <ri...@gentoo.org> wrote:
>On Thu, Jun 25, 2020 at 11:07 PM Aaron Bauman <b...@gentoo.org> wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 24, 2020 at 04:21:14PM -0400, Rich Freeman wrote:
>> >
>> > We're removing python2 around <date>. You can help us out by
>updating
>> > any packages you have that use python2. If you want to easily
>> > identify these packages just do <insert quick script here>.
>> >
>> > I think the problem here is that we're basically telling
>maintainers
>> > that the beatings will continue until morale improves. Then we're
>> > wondering why nothing is getting done.
>> >
>>
>> I am thoroughly confused here. Some how you have completely changed
>your
>> opinion from previous posts.
>
>Perhaps we failed to communicate then. My opinion has always been
>this:
>
>I support letting the python team manage the versions of python
>available - if people want legacy versions to stick around they need
>to do something to make it happen.
>
>HOWEVER, the python team would also find its job much easier if they
>partnered with the myriad of package maintainers to accomplish their
>goals, instead of just throwing them over the fence and then breaking
>things for users to try to get everybody's attention periodically.
>
How have we *not* partnered with the community of devs? Michal's mails to the
list? Previous discussions based on masks...
>>
>> Of all the methods listed in the previous posts, the QA reports, etc.
>> there is no excuse individuals can't find out if their package is py2
>> only.
>
>None of those methods were posted until a day or two ago, and the
>python team has done nothing to actually ensure all the impacted
>maintainers are aware of them. Perhaps a communication to
>-dev-announce with the preferred approach would be better?
>
You should also look at qa-reports. Do we really need to *teach* others "how to
fish" here? Why can't folks just ask for assistance?
All of it has been there and widely available for quite some time. Stop finding
excuses.
>You can't expect every Gentoo dev to independently cobble together a
>bunch of scripts to go hunting for py2 reverse deps.
>
See above. Qa-reports will output a very nice list (even a graphic!) of such
things. Anyway, yes, I do expect devs to understand their packages state if
they maintain it. Don't be so myopic.
>> Ironically, it would be a very sad state if an individual doesn't
>know
>> what Python interpreter their package is compatible with. This is the
>> essence of "maintainer" status, correct?
>
>Maintainers generally care about what the package does, and how it
>does it is a means to an end. Sure, some care more about the build
>system and dependencies than others, and when working on a package you
>need to pay more attention to such things. However, I suspect most
>package maintainers do not know off the top of their head the
>dependency list of all their packages.
>
>> Obviously, the myriad of tools, ML threads, and all the other
>"avenues"
>> individual developers have taken to alert others simply doesn't
>work...
>> until something is p.masked... people don't budge.
>
>At least some devs here seemed surprised about the masks. Did you try
>filing a bug?
Have you looked for said bugs?
>
>Masking something for all users is basically like torturing a kitten
>to get the attention of its owner. It is a necessary step if the
>package is actually to be removed. I don't think it is even allowable
>under our policies if no bug was filed.
>
Do tell where said policy is?
>But if filing bugs is painful at least make things easier on
>maintainers. Post a list of packages and owners, for example.
>
>It just seems like you're making things harder on yourself. Gentoo
>has done countless migrations like this and for whatever reason in the
>past creating a tracker and blocker bugs hasn't been a problem.
>
Nothing is really hard about masking packages for removal... honestly. The work
comes in defending the position here for the few that complain. If I filed a
bug... they would complain or not respond... If I sent out a dev-announce they
would complain or not respond.
You see the fun here? Which method is effective? Mask a 100 packages for
removal... Someone complains... A few packages get saved and 90 get removed...
Life goes on.
-Aaron
--
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
