On 6/4/24 3:37 PM, Joost Roeleveld wrote:
On 6/4/24 11:40 AM, Joost Roeleveld wrote:
Those steps do not just work.
The news item actually specifically states that portage will "just do
the update" if you have not set any python_targets stuff.
I have those not set, but it fails on ALL my systems.
Certainly it did NOT say that.
The news item said portage would try, and indeed it did try.
And failed miserably.
I run STABLE to avoid random build failures due to library compatibility
issues like this.
The devs pushed a change that caused 280+ packages (Check BGO if you
don't believe me) to simply not be compatible anymore.
Note that it's not a build failure -- it is an upgrade calculation
failure. It fails before upgrading any packages since it knows it can't
resolve the dependencies.
I tell portage to update my system.
Portage does not update my system.
How is this NOT a FAILURE?
You can criticize the resulting failure without claiming the news item
was untruthful. Thanks.
The newsitem is 100% USELESS. The devs should NOT push this through with
this MANY packages failing to even WORK
The purpose of the news item was to warn users that the event would
occur. Did it not achieve its purpose? Were you not-warned?
Do we at least agree that the news item was truthful?
I am NOT complaining about this STUPID and USELESS news item.
I AM complaining about a BROKEN update process caused by the devs
Can you please tone down your complaints? Talking about how it has been
"forced" is both overly dramatic, and pointlessly dramatic.
WHY?
The devs FORCED a change through which caused ALL systems to FAIL
regular maintenance.
This is provably false, since at least one system -- mine -- succeeded
just fine. I rebuilt several hundred packages (or synced a lot of them
from the binhost but same difference) for this upgrade, and all of them
worked.
Fine, your single system worked. Lucky you.
I got 20+ systems where it FAILED
More generally, it works depending on whether or not your system happens
to use any of the packages that are slow to support 3.12.
And it still isn't a forced anything, because...
It forced me to spend time investigating what was going wrong.
All this because the devs are too lazy to actually ensure blockers are
FIXED before pulling the trigger
Nothing has been forced. The defaults switched, but individuals are
perfectly capable of delaying the switch and indeed the news item gives
instructions for the event that you wish to delay it.
WHY would I want to delay something? I do NOT care about python versions.
I DO care about being able to keep my systems updated.
When these FAIL even when I am using stable, I investigate.
When I then notice it is caused by a shortsighted decision of the devs
to force this change to all users WITHOUT ensuring packages that HAVE
been converted to 3.12 have been stabilised, the devs are clearly
showing they do NOT care about their users.
Please criticize the defaults, without accusations of "force".
If defaults change, this is force.
So your answer is that it counts as forcing because you respect
defaults, but don't respect the developers, and you think it is
shortsighted and lacking respect for users to change defaults and... I
guess therefore you refuse to vindicate the devs by accepting that a
possible solution is to delay the change?
Then WHY did the devs NOT delay?
Sorry but no, keeping your system updated regardless of linux distro
means following urgent notices provided by the developers. On Gentoo,
that's the news system.
Again, WHY did the devs NOT delay?
The existence of a news system that tells you whether you need to pay
attention to something specific when performing system
updates/maintenance, intrinsically means that you have to care about
whatever the news system tells you to pay attention to.
Yes, fine. I do pay attention.
But, again. This ENTIRE MESS is caused because the devs were incapable
of actually considering the result of their actions and being unable
to consider DELAYING this
Which in this case is "python versions".
I'm sorry to hear your experience has been disappointing. But this
doesn't give you the right to claim that it has been forced on you. You
were given advance warning weeks ago that this was upcoming, so you
could plan your maintenance around it. You were given instructions on
how to opt out of the change. The instructions work -- you can follow
them and as a result not deal with any python 3.12 upgrade at all.
Here is the problem. The instructions DO NOT WORK!
The steps described will NOT fix the problem.
I, and others, had to go CHANGE the config to FIX the MESS the devs CAUSED
Gentoo provides you the tools to control your system with this
specificity. You have the option to avoid this change -- everything will
continue to work flawlessly with python 3.11. This is the very
definition of not being forced.
Having to add hundreds of lines to package.use is BEING FORCED TO FIX
PROBLEMS THE DEVS CAUSED
How difficult is this to undersand?
You may look far and wide, but you won't find agreement that "if
defaults change, this is force".
LEARN to READ!
