Neil Bothwick <neil <at> digimed.co.uk> writes:
> > All you have said presupposes one (erroneous) assumption: that is an > > easy to use graphical install cannot be used if the distro is source > > code based. Nothing could be further from the truth. An easy to use > > graphical installation, should only be for getting the HD prepared, > > kernel installed and a minimum number of software packages installed. > > Then the customizing could continue as is normal via the handbook. > At which point the new user is diving into the handbook partway though, > missing important information from the first part. There is no point in > using graphical installer if users still need to drop to the command > line to administer the system, and if you want an all graphical > installation and administration environment, use YaST. Well, I forgot to mention that one of my tenants to a graphical installation is that is also be 'unattended'. Input the configuration data and let it run. If it can successfully run, unattended, then it really does not matter if it takes 15 minutes or 15 hours. I disagree with your 'no point.. if you still drop to the comand line" I'm not suggesting that Gentoo be run and managed from webmin. I'm just saying a stripped down (see above) installation that gets the basics in place, unattended, after inputing the necessary configuration information would be quite nice. Gentoo servers are very easy to maintain. Workstations (full of X, KDE(Gnome), and apps, are the constant battle). Gentoo could easily attract more small business and users, just by packaging up things like DNS servers, firewalls, webserver, ecommerce servers etc.etc. However, I run those updates at night (unattended) and deal with failures the next day. It's easy just use something like: emerge -uDNv world; emerge --skipfirts --resume; <repeated> add in an occational revdep-rebuild and you should have a happy system. Gentoo wikis go a long way to 'self help' with gentoo, in my experience. > > A nice graphical installation process would help the distro grow and > > gain presence in more places, which is always a good thing. > Don't confuse quantity and quality. Simpler installation and > administration of a number of machines, not necessarily identical, would > do more for the take up of Gentoo in areas where it could really benefit. We totally agree here, but, I do not see the existence of a simplified, gui based installation, as a threat to the (power)heritage of Gentoo..... > > Distros survive, regardless of being free or for sell, because they > > attract a large user base. Gentoo needs an easy to use, graphical > > installation CD, period. > All that would do is increase the number of disaffected users. You need > to read the documentation and use the command line to use Gentoo > effectively, AGREED! > hiding that behind a pretty pointy-clicky installer until > the system is installed and then hitting the user with the truth can leave > them feeling conned. What is wrong with being honest about the situation > and telling people up front "if you are not prepared for some reading and > typing, Gentoo is not for you". I totally disagree with you here. I have many of happy gentoo users that are quite novice. Once you install gentoo and get kde-meta running, it's quite easy to maintain a gentoo system and add new apps. For some of the folks, I ssh in remotely to fix/add stuff, the rest, learn compound commands strings, like the one above and do not bother me for months/years at a time. The fact that their software is routinely updated mostly at night, makes them very happy. The aforementioned story about a computer science grad student is very real. He's Indian (from India) very smart and designing chips by prototyping things on FPGA. He knew about Gentoo and wanted it. He had tried to install it before and had trouble (he knows me but did not ask for help) so he opted for Ubuntu.<snip> Bottom line, if folks like that are not attracted to Gentoo, solely based on the installation medium and the subsequent pain, then, as a distro Gentoo is severely lacking. I am like you, to stubborn to give up on anything I really want to do. Others are not so.... fortified, in their determination. > The Gentoo Installer Project has some good goals, but attracting people > for whom Gentoo is not the right choice should not be one of them. Dam bro... I have a lot of respect for you, your skills, and your persistence on this list. YOU have helped me quite a lot over time, even when I was 'dense' about a few things...however.... Seems like we had that attitude here in America, centuries ago towards black folks....... Isn't Gentoo as much of an educational system (about unix and computing and math and engineering and IT and the web and embedded systems and just learning how to be_cool(?), and community; as it is a power tool for techies? Out of the masses Gentoo attracts, there will be more cream that rises to the highest levels, or mankind is doomed (methinks). I'm an old, jaded techie, but at least my charity to others is not so...............hardened. Anyway, I'm done with this thread. PEACE, James -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
