I disagree strongly. Careful well thought out experimentation is allowed in engineering. Experiments can be allowed to fail if the damage from failure is well thought through, designed to be limited and lives are protected. How would we have developed the atom bomb if failure was not allowed? That is why the experiment was done in the desert far from humanity. If we knew enough that the experiment could not fail we would not have had to do the experiment. The very word experiment implies the possibility of failure
ex·per·i·ment ( k-sp r -m nt) n. 1. a. A test under controlled conditions that is made to demonstrate a known truth, examine the validity of a hypothesis, or determine the efficacy of something previously untried. b. The process of conducting such a test; experimentation. 2. An innovative act or procedure: "Democracy is only an experiment in government" (William Ralph Inge). 3. The result of experimentation: "We are not [nature's] only experiment" (R. Buckminster Fuller). intr.v. (-m nt ) ex·per·i·ment·ed , ex·per·i·ment·ing , ex·per·i·ments 1. To conduct an experiment. 2. To try something new, especially in order to gain experience: experiment with new methods of teaching. I must say with all due respect that the notion that engineering experiments must not be allowed to fail sounds silly to me. I have done my share of failed experiments, n o one ever got hurt, and no one threatened to take away my PhD. Gene Gordon ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Lewis" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Cc: [email protected] Sent: Saturday, August 3, 2013 1:54:54 PM Subject: Re: [geo] RE: Geoengineering carries unknown consequences "in the end you just have to make the right call" Kent Peacock, professor of philosophy, was invited to give a presentation at the recent AGU Chapman conference on Communicating Climate Science. Around the 11th minute he discussed engineering and ethics. He touched on what the law requires of engineers. He mentioned the precautionary principle, the Hippocratic Oath, what an emergency physician does, and, he discussed the history of thought about the concept of judgement, at one point saying "to an ancient Greek thinker like Aristotle, a code of ethics such as the Ten Commandments would seem almost childish". One reason I thought some here may find his presentation relevant is his point that the law [ in Canada, and he thinks, in the US ] applies to what engineers do. "An engineer, to have the letters P Eng after your name, you actually HAVE to be ethical. Its required by law." Engineers have to innovate, but they can't just experiment. He had geoengineers, or those who would-be, in mind. "When you're a scientist if the mice all die well that's too bad for the mice but you probably learned something and you just go on to the next experiment. You can't do that as an engineer. Experimentation is not allowed. You have to do something that no one has ever done before, but you have to get it right the first time. And clearly this would apply to the concept of geoengineering that a lot of people are discussing. If we ever decide to do that, this aspect of engineering ethics has to come in. You can't just experiment. Right?" Its a short talk. A youtube video of it is available here . The Kent Peacock page from the U of Lethbridge website is here . On Friday, August 2, 2013 9:25:16 AM UTC-7, Ken Caldeira wrote: Can someone point me to any action that we take that has only known consequences? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "geoengineering" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering . For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out . -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "geoengineering" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
