Thanks for the clarification Simone, I will update the proposal accordingly.
--
Jody Garnett


On Thu, 6 Jan 2022 at 13:06, Simone Giannecchini <
simone.giannecch...@geosolutionsgroup.com> wrote:

> "or any variation over this" means that you can propose something
> different from what I propose as long as it does not involve GPKG formats
> for WMS and WFS to end up in core right away.
>
> Regards,
> Simone Giannecchini
> ==
> GeoServer Professional Services from the experts!
> Visit http://bit.ly/gs-services for more information.
> ==
> Ing. Simone Giannecchini
> @simogeo
> Founder/Director GeoSolutions Italy
> President GeoSolutions USA
>
> phone: +39 0584 962313
> fax:     +39 0584 1660272
> mob:   +39  333 8128928
>
> http://www.geosolutionsgroup.com
> http://twitter.com/geosolutions_it
>
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> On Thu, Jan 6, 2022 at 9:50 PM Jody Garnett <jody.garn...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> I am not sure I understand your statement "or any variation over this" -
>> what do you mean?
>>
>> I am presently trying to make sure I understand your feedback here, and
>> testing fixes for geopackage axis order (GEOS-8793,GEOT-7011).
>> --
>> Jody Garnett
>>
>>
>> On Thu, 6 Jan 2022 at 11:57, Simone Giannecchini <
>> simone.giannecch...@geosolutionsgroup.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Jody,
>>> no my proposal is:
>>> - GPKG output for WMS and WFS becomes an official extension
>>> - GPKG output for WPS gets folded in WPS
>>>  or any variation over this.
>>>
>>> I am not confident in having GPKG output for WMS and FS jump directly
>>> into core but we shall try to find a middle ground to not block your work.
>>> Feel free to propose something else along these lines.
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Simone Giannecchini
>>> ==
>>> GeoServer Professional Services from the experts!
>>> Visit http://bit.ly/gs-services for more information.
>>> ==
>>> Ing. Simone Giannecchini
>>> @simogeo
>>> Founder/Director GeoSolutions Italy
>>> President GeoSolutions USA
>>>
>>> phone: +39 0584 962313
>>> fax:     +39 0584 1660272
>>> mob:   +39  333 8128928
>>>
>>> http://www.geosolutionsgroup.com
>>> http://twitter.com/geosolutions_it
>>>
>>> -------------------------------------------------------
>>> This email is intended only for the person or entity to which it is
>>> addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential or
>>> otherwise protected from disclosure. We remind that - as provided by
>>> European Regulation 2016/679 “GDPR” - copying, dissemination or use of this
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>>> notify us immediately by telephone or e-mail.
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>>>
>>> On Wed, Jan 5, 2022 at 3:29 PM Jody Garnett <jody.garn...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Simone
>>>>
>>>> So the counter proposal is to take WFS and WMS into their own (very
>>>> small) extensions, and leave WPS functionality behind as a community
>>>> module. I am aware that the wps download extension offers very simple
>>>> geopackage output for a single layer.
>>>>
>>>> I will need to check if that is okay.
>>>>
>>>> Jody
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Jan 5, 2022 at 1:37 AM Simone Giannecchini <
>>>> simone.giannecch...@geosolutionsgroup.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Jody,
>>>>> I second what Andrea said, I'd be much more confident if we followed
>>>>> the usual path and we made the gpkg output for WMS and WFS as an official
>>>>> extension.
>>>>> In time we can move it to core but at the moment I still don't feel
>>>>> like these modules are ready.
>>>>>
>>>>> Let me know what you think.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> Simone Giannecchini
>>>>> ==
>>>>> GeoServer Professional Services from the experts!
>>>>> Visit http://bit.ly/gs-services for more information.
>>>>> ==
>>>>> Ing. Simone Giannecchini
>>>>> @simogeo
>>>>> Founder/Director GeoSolutions Italy
>>>>> President GeoSolutions USA
>>>>>
>>>>> phone: +39 0584 962313
>>>>> fax:     +39 0584 1660272
>>>>> mob:   +39  333 8128928
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.geosolutionsgroup.com
>>>>> http://twitter.com/geosolutions_it
>>>>>
>>>>> -------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> This email is intended only for the person or entity to which it is
>>>>> addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential or
>>>>> otherwise protected from disclosure. We remind that - as provided by
>>>>> European Regulation 2016/679 “GDPR” - copying, dissemination or use of 
>>>>> this
>>>>> e-mail or the information herein by anyone other than the intended
>>>>> recipient is prohibited. If you have received this email by mistake, 
>>>>> please
>>>>> notify us immediately by telephone or e-mail.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Jan 5, 2022 at 9:49 AM Andrea Aime <
>>>>> andrea.a...@geosolutionsgroup.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Jody,
>>>>>> the checklist should be part of the proposal ;-)
>>>>>> Maybe Simone's worries can be addressed by just upgrading the module
>>>>>> as an extension, instead of splitting it and folding it into core 
>>>>>> modules?
>>>>>> The gs-wms and gs-wfs have somehow limited usage anyways, can only be
>>>>>> used to make small exports that would not trigger an HTTP timeout
>>>>>> (I have seen 1 to 5 minutes timeouts in pratical deploys).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>> Andrea
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Jan 5, 2022 at 3:16 AM Jody Garnett <jody.garn...@gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Simone, this is the definition of slow moving and not urgent. I
>>>>>>> first asked if this was a good idea around 2 years ago as a customer is
>>>>>>> interested. Procurement moves slowly, funding has now come through to do
>>>>>>> this activity. The customer has been using geopackage WFS output for at
>>>>>>> least three years. Indeed this funding is as a result of a review of the
>>>>>>> community modules the customer is using in production, and asking if 
>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>> would be interested in helping it be cleaned up and made into an 
>>>>>>> official
>>>>>>> extension.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> While I do not have a sizable number of clients, once this
>>>>>>> functionality has been cleaned up I will be adding it to the geocat
>>>>>>> enterprise products for all our customers (presently it is an option by
>>>>>>> request).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Let's review the checklist:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *1. The module has at least a “handful” of users.*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have three users of this functionality, only one I would consider
>>>>>>> as using it in production.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *2. The module has a designated and active maintainer*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I offered to join Andrea on this (on the assumption the
>>>>>>> functionality can be cleaned up and be included in geocat enterprise
>>>>>>> products).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *3. The module is considered “stable” by the majority of the PSC*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I checked in with this on november/decemeber expecting wfs and wps
>>>>>>> to be stable and wms output format to be removed. Andrea asked me to 
>>>>>>> revise
>>>>>>> the proposal to include gs-wms.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So far my personal testing has been mixed, EPSG:4326 output is
>>>>>>> coming out in Y/X order which does not match up with the specification:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The axis order in WKB stored in a GeoPackage follows the de facto
>>>>>>> standard for axis order in WKB and is therefore always (x,y{,z}{,m}) 
>>>>>>> where
>>>>>>> x is easting or longitude, y is northing or latitude, z is optional
>>>>>>> elevation, and m is optional measure. This ordering explicitly overrides
>>>>>>> the axis order as specified in the SRS metadata, applying Case 4 from 
>>>>>>> OGC
>>>>>>> 08-038r7, Revision to Axis Order Policy and Recommendations[K11]. This 
>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>> done to maintain consistency with previous implementations of WKB that
>>>>>>> predated the OGC policy.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The above indicates additional QA is needed. You can also see the
>>>>>>> proposal where I noted frustration with a couple design decisions.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *4. The module maintains 40% test coverage*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The coverage looks good, but I have not measured it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *5. The module has no IP violations.*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So far everything seems to be original work, with links to OGC where
>>>>>>> appropriate. If something comes up during the activity I will let you 
>>>>>>> know.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *6. The module has a page in the user manual*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Not directly useful as the documentation will be distributed across
>>>>>>> several pages:
>>>>>>> *
>>>>>>> https://docs.geoserver.org/stable/en/user/community/geopkg/index.html
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I also note geosolutions has training materials
>>>>>>> https://docs.geoserver.geo-solutions.it/edu/en/wps/geopackage_output.html
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *7. The maintainer has signed the GeoServer Contributor Agreement*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> OSGeo has a signed CLA from both myself and GeoCat BV.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Jody Garnett
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tue, 4 Jan 2022 at 14:23, Simone Giannecchini <
>>>>>>> simone.giannecch...@geosolutionsgroup.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Good Morning Jody,
>>>>>>>> I am not too inclined on having the gpkg output jump from community
>>>>>>>> to core for WMS and WFS.
>>>>>>>> The process we have in place is there to exactly  prevent something
>>>>>>>> like this from happening because "someone needs it urgently".
>>>>>>>> I mean, have you been using them in production enough to be
>>>>>>>> confident with them? Do you already have a sizable number of clients 
>>>>>>>> using
>>>>>>>> the extensions so we can trust them? I guess not given what you said
>>>>>>>> above...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> For the moment my vote is a -1 on this, but I am happy to hear your
>>>>>>>> thoughts on my points above.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>> Simone Giannecchini
>>>>>>>> ==
>>>>>>>> GeoServer Professional Services from the experts!
>>>>>>>> Visit http://bit.ly/gs-services for more information.
>>>>>>>> ==
>>>>>>>> Ing. Simone Giannecchini
>>>>>>>> @simogeo
>>>>>>>> Founder/Director GeoSolutions Italy
>>>>>>>> President GeoSolutions USA
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> phone: +39 0584 962313
>>>>>>>> fax:     +39 0584 1660272
>>>>>>>> mob:   +39  333 8128928
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://www.geosolutionsgroup.com
>>>>>>>> http://twitter.com/geosolutions_it
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>> This email is intended only for the person or entity to which it is
>>>>>>>> addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential 
>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>> otherwise protected from disclosure. We remind that - as provided by
>>>>>>>> European Regulation 2016/679 “GDPR” - copying, dissemination or use of 
>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>> e-mail or the information herein by anyone other than the intended
>>>>>>>> recipient is prohibited. If you have received this email by mistake, 
>>>>>>>> please
>>>>>>>> notify us immediately by telephone or e-mail.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Fri, Dec 31, 2021 at 1:50 AM Jody Garnett <
>>>>>>>> jody.garn...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Proposal is renamed.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> With respect to gs-wps module I would like to see the matching
>>>>>>>>> gt-wps unsupported module which forms its foundation cleaned up 
>>>>>>>>> (finally).
>>>>>>>>> Something we can discuss in the new year.
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Jody Garnett
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 30 Dec 2021 at 07:40, Jody Garnett <jody.garn...@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Thanks Andrea, I will rename the proposal.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I have capacity to support the wps module on this one (as indeed
>>>>>>>>>> a customer is funding this activity).
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Jody
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Dec 30, 2021 at 5:11 AM Andrea Aime <
>>>>>>>>>> andrea.a...@geosolutionsgroup.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Jody,
>>>>>>>>>>> checking the proposal, I believe the title is misleading, it
>>>>>>>>>>> seems to suggest a classic module move from community to extension, 
>>>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>>> is... which does not match the actual proposal.
>>>>>>>>>>> The actual proposal is:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>    - Fold the WFS output format gs-wfs, the WMS output format
>>>>>>>>>>>    in gs-wms, hence, move these two bits in _core_
>>>>>>>>>>>    - Fold the WPS process in gs-wps-core
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> About the move to cover of the WMS/WFS output formats, from a
>>>>>>>>>>> technical point of view I'm not concerned:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>    - The WFS output format will eventually break for large
>>>>>>>>>>>    outputs due to HTTP  time outs (needs to be written on disk 
>>>>>>>>>>> first, streamed
>>>>>>>>>>>    back once complete), but the same already happens for zipped 
>>>>>>>>>>> shapefiles, so
>>>>>>>>>>>    nothing really new
>>>>>>>>>>>    - The WMS output format now honors the rendering time outs,
>>>>>>>>>>>    so it should be fine
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I should however point out that the core of GeoServer is
>>>>>>>>>>> "maintained by the PSC" so the rest of the PSC should be 
>>>>>>>>>>> comfortable having
>>>>>>>>>>> that code in core, and realize the associated obligation.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> About the move of the WPS process to wps-core, I'm also
>>>>>>>>>>> personally not deeply concerned, if the documentation
>>>>>>>>>>> is very clear about the experimental extensions baked into the
>>>>>>>>>>> process (so doc updates are needed).
>>>>>>>>>>> I'm however noting the code moving also moves its maintainership
>>>>>>>>>>> from "nobody" to me (the WPS module maintainer), which I'm not too 
>>>>>>>>>>> fond of
>>>>>>>>>>> [1].
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Since you're making the proposal, I'd like you to step up as
>>>>>>>>>>> co-maintainer of the code you're trying to push up. For the core 
>>>>>>>>>>> bits, as a
>>>>>>>>>>> PSC member, you're taking that
>>>>>>>>>>> responsibility automatically anyways. Please step up to
>>>>>>>>>>> co-maintain the processes once moved in gs-wps-core.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>>>>>>> Andrea
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> [1] Due to both project and business obligations I'm responsible
>>>>>>>>>>> for way too many modules already,
>>>>>>>>>>> something which is too big of a onus on my shoulders, and a big
>>>>>>>>>>> project liability in case I get sick
>>>>>>>>>>> or decide to leave. It's something we'll have to address,
>>>>>>>>>>> possibly sooner rather than later.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Dec 30, 2021 at 5:28 AM Jody Garnett <
>>>>>>>>>>> jody.garn...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Please have a look at
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/geoserver/geoserver/wiki/GSIP-206 which
>>>>>>>>>>>> outlines moving different sections of the geopackage community 
>>>>>>>>>>>> module into
>>>>>>>>>>>> the appropriate core module: gs-wfs, gs-wms, and gs-wps.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The proposal is solid, please make note of the backwards
>>>>>>>>>>>> compatibility section which proposes calling out wps geopackage 
>>>>>>>>>>>> supports
>>>>>>>>>>>> for not yet finalized extensions. While there is nothing wrong 
>>>>>>>>>>>> with having
>>>>>>>>>>>> geoserver specific extensions they should be documented as such 
>>>>>>>>>>>> (and marked
>>>>>>>>>>>> as in progress if they are chasing a moving target).  If folks feel
>>>>>>>>>>>> strongly about documentation not being enough warning I can look 
>>>>>>>>>>>> at leaving
>>>>>>>>>>>> these geopackage extensions as an optional install.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Jody
>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>> Jody Garnett
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> Geoserver-devel mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>> Geoserver-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/geoserver-devel
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Andrea Aime
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ==
>>>>>>>>>>> GeoServer Professional Services from the experts!
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Visit http://bit.ly/gs-services-us for more information.
>>>>>>>>>>> ==
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Ing. Andrea Aime
>>>>>>>>>>> @geowolf
>>>>>>>>>>> Technical Lead
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> GeoSolutions Group
>>>>>>>>>>> phone: +39 0584 962313
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> fax:     +39 0584 1660272
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> mob:   +39  333 8128928
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.geosolutionsgroup.com/
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> http://twitter.com/geosolutions_it
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> -------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Con riferimento alla normativa sul trattamento dei dati
>>>>>>>>>>> personali (Reg. UE 2016/679 - Regolamento generale sulla protezione 
>>>>>>>>>>> dei
>>>>>>>>>>> dati “GDPR”), si precisa che ogni circostanza inerente alla 
>>>>>>>>>>> presente email
>>>>>>>>>>> (il suo contenuto, gli eventuali allegati, etc.) è un dato la cui
>>>>>>>>>>> conoscenza è riservata al/i solo/i destinatario/i indicati dallo 
>>>>>>>>>>> scrivente.
>>>>>>>>>>> Se il messaggio Le è giunto per errore, è tenuta/o a cancellarlo, 
>>>>>>>>>>> ogni
>>>>>>>>>>> altra operazione è illecita. Le sarei comunque grato se potesse 
>>>>>>>>>>> darmene
>>>>>>>>>>> notizia.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> This email is intended only for the person or entity to which it
>>>>>>>>>>> is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, 
>>>>>>>>>>> confidential
>>>>>>>>>>> or otherwise protected from disclosure. We remind that - as 
>>>>>>>>>>> provided by
>>>>>>>>>>> European Regulation 2016/679 “GDPR” - copying, dissemination or use 
>>>>>>>>>>> of this
>>>>>>>>>>> e-mail or the information herein by anyone other than the intended
>>>>>>>>>>> recipient is prohibited. If you have received this email by 
>>>>>>>>>>> mistake, please
>>>>>>>>>>> notify us immediately by telephone or e-mail
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> Jody Garnett
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Geoserver-devel mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Geoserver-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/geoserver-devel
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Andrea Aime
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ==
>>>>>> GeoServer Professional Services from the experts!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Visit http://bit.ly/gs-services-us for more information.
>>>>>> ==
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ing. Andrea Aime
>>>>>> @geowolf
>>>>>> Technical Lead
>>>>>>
>>>>>> GeoSolutions Group
>>>>>> phone: +39 0584 962313
>>>>>>
>>>>>> fax:     +39 0584 1660272
>>>>>>
>>>>>> mob:   +39  333 8128928
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.geosolutionsgroup.com/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://twitter.com/geosolutions_it
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Con riferimento alla normativa sul trattamento dei dati personali
>>>>>> (Reg. UE 2016/679 - Regolamento generale sulla protezione dei dati 
>>>>>> “GDPR”),
>>>>>> si precisa che ogni circostanza inerente alla presente email (il suo
>>>>>> contenuto, gli eventuali allegati, etc.) è un dato la cui conoscenza è
>>>>>> riservata al/i solo/i destinatario/i indicati dallo scrivente. Se il
>>>>>> messaggio Le è giunto per errore, è tenuta/o a cancellarlo, ogni altra
>>>>>> operazione è illecita. Le sarei comunque grato se potesse darmene 
>>>>>> notizia.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This email is intended only for the person or entity to which it is
>>>>>> addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential or
>>>>>> otherwise protected from disclosure. We remind that - as provided by
>>>>>> European Regulation 2016/679 “GDPR” - copying, dissemination or use of 
>>>>>> this
>>>>>> e-mail or the information herein by anyone other than the intended
>>>>>> recipient is prohibited. If you have received this email by mistake, 
>>>>>> please
>>>>>> notify us immediately by telephone or e-mail
>>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>> --
>>>> Jody Garnett
>>>>
>>>
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