I discovered Open Office Draw today... A dream come true. The program is layed out for drawing lines/arrows, squares and circles. No paths or layers to deal with. Perfect for me.
I did this drawing in about 30 minutes: http://www.geocities.com/klairbab/beta.gif Everything came out the right size. The font size really is 14 pt (and too big for this document). I can select the objects by pointing at them, move them around, resize them. They retain their identity. I can even select a group of objects using the [rectanglular] select tool, and copy and paste the group into a new location. Draw does a deep copy. You get new objects which look exactly like the old ones, clones. Funny thing was I couldn't find the crop button, so I used Gimp to resize it. The crop button was described in the help, but I couldn't find the 'graphics object' toolbar. Have no idea where it could be. (I managed to find this toolbar in the 'Customize' dialog box. I could configure it, the but I couldn't find it!) Draw even claims to do scalable vector graphics, but I didn't get that deep into it. I'm afraid to look, afraid of being disappointed. The native file format is xml, I forget the extension, like OO Office, .swx, or something like that. Wouldn't it be nice if Draw used the 3wc svg schema? Even if it did you'd have to deal with rendering the drawing. That would mean a plug-in for the browser, which only seem to display gifs and jpegs with any consistency. Joe http://modern-greek-verbs.tripod.com/ PS I revisited Microsoft Paint today. It hasn't changed since I first met it in Windows 98. It has a very simple user interface. I could still make it work. The text box merely puts the bitmapped image of the text on the drawing surface. When you leave the little editor, Paint forgets it was a text object, but it's pretty simple to copy and paste the thing. Paint even has buttons for boxes with rounded corners. I remember doing documentation for a keyboard layout using them, a hundred of them. All this is speculative of course, but I wonder how I would do it in Gimp. Gimp has alot of flexibility, so much, in fact, I didn't know where to begin. That was the problem. To make things worse, I'm sure I'll forget the Gimp abstractions in a couple weeks. That's what made Paint so useful. Nothing to remember. I see there are alot of drawing programs out there. The commercial ones, I don't know them, so I don't know what Adobe is offering, probably something pretty nice, a Cadillac, with scalable vector graphics. A friend teaches AutoCad so I got used to watching her make floor plans. Another friend is an interior decorator and uses AutoCad. They told me the selling price is $5,000 US, and the program only runs on a Windows platform. They have managed to get copies for free. This means I'd get a chance to test the Windows emulator for Linux, what was it called? Something catchy, like "Pine" or something. "Wine" that's it. "Windows Emulator" ... another program that sounds to good to be true. But I'll probably never get a chancem because Helen and Katerina have no idea what Linux is. They strictly do Windows. Working these programs is purely instinctive. When you learn how to do it you can do it in a flash. No need to explain how it works to use it, it's like driving a car. I envy you graphics designers. You are in touch with your inner selves, very creative, men and women of few words. All this comes naturally to you. Me? I like numbers. I can't make it work if I don't understand it -- and I don't drive a car. On 1/31/06, Joe Schaffner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > My First GIF: http://www.geocities.com/klairbab/alpha.gif > > (It's part of http://www.geocities.com/klairbab/verbcomb.html but I > can't pass you the #doorbell portion of the url, because Yahoo! is > mangling the anchor) > > Hey, Gimp really is great! > > Thanks. > > Joe > > PS > > > > > Do I move the whole layer? > > > > > > It looks like I can "select" the layer using the Layer dialog and move > > > the entire layer to position the text. I'll try that tomorrow. That > > > would be easier than cutting and pasting regions on the drawing > > > surface, like you do with mspaint, but I got pretty good at it. What > > > bothered me was moving the edges of the layer off screen. I don't like > > > surprises. > > > > > that quality can become useful. there is a difference between canvas > > size and image size. if at any moment you are extremely uncomfortable > > with some of the image stuff not being in view in the image area, simply > > Image/Canvas to image size (or something like that in the menu). > > Moving the Text boxes around was a breeze. I just made sure the > "Φοντο" layer was current (must be "Background" in English). Then I > chose the Move tool and simply moved the cursor, slowly, over the > text. A little hand appeared, which I clicked, and got the Move icon > again. The scope was clear, and I could position the text inside the > ellipses, no problem. I didn't even need to consider the layers. > > > the text tool has several options, one of them is a reset. please use > > the reset button and then be careful of which font you choose. the free > > software tends to show you all of your computer fonts. not all of those > > fonts were made for decorative image making. > > Ok, I'll remember that, the reset button... > > The font I'm using is the TTF Times New Roman I took off a Windows > system. I chose 14 pt. but the .xcf came out a little small. Looks > more like 8 pt. The gif actually compares well with the browser, just > a little smaller than expected. The rasterization process must be the > same (of course). > > > > Hey! I couldn't find any grid. > > > > > View/Grid > > Sorry about that. I found the Grid, no problem. I have a Greek desktop > and I overlooked it. > > > > I noticed one of the layers had a grid-like background, don't know how > > > it got there, and I couldn't make it do anything with it, so I gave > > > up. > > > > > it is also possible to paint a grid onto a layer. > > Filters/Render/Patterns/Grid, perhaps you did this. > > What is that checkerboard pattern? > > > > How would I go about creating an mspaint user interface for the gimp? > > > > > i would start by seeing if you can get it to compile on windows first. > > then ask again for instructions here. > > No need to do that... Gimp just as easy as mspaint after all. If > mspaint is a "paint program", then gimp is too, only better. > > > > Can I do it with your scheme interpreter? > > > > > you would have to answer this yourself. > > No, I don't think so... If your Scheme is anything like AutoLisp it > can only be used in the application domain, to automate the drawing > process, like a macro language. I don't expect I can put new buttons > in the tool box. Hm, maybe I can.. > > I was thinking I'd probably need a programming language, like C, and > your plug-in interface, to extend gimp, but I still don't know what > you consider a plug-in, hm, transformers for other file formats? > > > i wonder even if mspaint is a > > scheme thing using libgimp. there is no way of knowing what the heck ms > > did to make software! > > Wouldn't that be funny, if MS ripped you off. You wouldn't be the first > victim. > > > > Curious thing, AutoCad also has a Lisp interface, which none of my > > > architect friends can use. > > > > > > Who inspired who? > > > > > meanwhile, ICQ claims all .scm (i read this somewhere on the internet) > > > > Sorry, what is ICQ and .scm? > > > to me, personally, it speaks well of your friends to not be able to use > > lisp. > > It also makes me more useful. :) > > Thanks Carol, > > Great email. > > Great program. > > On 1/26/06, Carol Spears <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Thu, Jan 26, 2006 at 09:39:26PM +0200, Joe Schaffner wrote: > > > > > > > What exactly is a layer? > > > > > > A drawing is made up of layers. Why? Each layer has attributes which > > > are combined to produce a total visual effect. This means you can add > > > and subtract layers, join them, etc. > > > > > > Some of these attributes must be the fuzzing, shadowing, smearing, > > > etc.... the artsy stuff, which a newbie like me would not be > > > interested in. > > > > > > A layer can be transparent. Perfect. When I create a text box I must > > > also be creating a layer. > > > > > making masks and manipulating the transparency of each layer is the only > > thing missing from this nice answer to your own question. > > > > > > Do I move the whole layer? > > > > > > It looks like I can "select" the layer using the Layer dialog and move > > > the entire layer to position the text. I'll try that tomorrow. That > > > would be easier than cutting and pasting regions on the drawing > > > surface, like you do with mspaint, but I got pretty good at it. What > > > bothered me was moving the edges of the layer off screen. I don't like > > > surprises. > > > > > that quality can become useful. there is a difference between canvas > > size and image size. if at any moment you are extremely uncomfortable > > with some of the image stuff not being in view in the image area, simply > > Image/Canvas to image size (or something like that in the menu). > > > > > Hey! I couldn't find any grid. > > > > > View/Grid > > > > you can adjust the size of the grid via the preferences. > > > > > I'm used to drawing on a gridded surface. I need the grid to line up > > > components and I can't do that using the rulers on the edges of the > > > drawing surface, and the measuring tools have a learning curve... > > > These learning curves are cumulative. > > > > > > I noticed one of the layers had a grid like background, don't know how > > > it got there, and I couldn't make it do anything with it, so I gave > > > up. > > > > > it is also possible to paint a grid onto a layer. > > Filters/Render/Patterns/Grid, perhaps you did this. > > > > also, if you drag the mouse from the rulers you can get a guide. > > > > > > Do I select an object by selecting the layer? > > > > > > To be honest, I was expecting to be able to point at an "object" and > > > select it by simply clicking, but it was much more complicated than > > > that, and I wasn't sure exactly what a selection tool was or a path. > > > > > the gimp has an understanding of too many "objects". perhaps you want > > all instance of a color, maybe you would like all continuous instance of > > a color. perhaps you want all the image area outside of a path that you > > have not shown to gimp yet. it is more complex than what you are used > > to. > > > > > There was something called a "moving selection" layer or something. I > > > don't know how I got it, but it had something to do with the selection > > > tools, or the "move" button, which also was highly context-sensitive, > > > so I couldn't do much with that either. > > > > > floating selections. much controversy. if you use gimp often, you will > > understand how it works. > > > > > > Does it make sense to draw inside a text object? > > > > > > I can edit the letters in the text box. Boy was the font quality > > > crappy, much worse than the browser. You must not be using the same > > > font transformation the rest of the world is. > > > > > the text tool has several options, one of them is a reset. please use > > the reset button and then be careful of which font you choose. the free > > software tends to show you all of your computer fonts. not all of those > > fonts were made for decorative image making. > > > > please do not be frightened about this new glimpse into your computer. > > those system fonts actually (occasionally) make nice button images > > because they do work at lower resolutions. > > > > > I wonder if I can create layers inside a text box too, which also have > > > graphics, like lines and circles... > > > > > no. the text layer is a special layer. if you save your work as xcf, > > gimp should be able to access the text and the font if it is still > > available to it where you open it. > > > > you can do all of those things on layers around it. tranforming the > > text layer in any way beyond moving it will make it be a paint layer > > with no text memory other than the shape. > > > > > > Is it an object at all? > > > > > > I suppose, a layer is an object, but my figures do not look much like > > > objects, I mean I cannot create them as objects, give them names, make > > > them into components, like an arrow, with a head and tail, then > > > instantiate the object. Of course, you'd have to do this with a svg > > > program, but I couldn't tell what gimp was just by looking at it. > > > There sure are alot of windows. > > > > > > How would I go about creating an mspaint user interface for the gimp? > > > > > i would start by seeing if you can get it to compile on windows first. > > then ask again for instructions here. > > > > > Can I do it with your scheme interpreter? > > > > > you would have to answer this yourself. i wonder even if mspaint is a > > scheme thing using libgimp. there is no way of knowing what the heck ms > > did to make software! > > > > > Curious thing, AutoCad also has a Lisp interface, which none of my > > > architect friends can use. > > > > > > Who inspired who? > > > > > meanwhile, ICQ claims all .scm (i read this somewhere on the internet) > > > > to me, personally, it speaks well of your friends to not be able to use > > lisp. > > > > carol > > > > > http://modern-greek-verbs.tripod.com/ > > > http://www.geocities.com/klairbab/ > > > > > > On 1/24/06, Joe Schaffner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Hi Everyone, > > > > > > > > I have SuSE Linux 9.2 and need to do some simple line drawings I'm > > > > doing for a book I'm translating. The site is at: > > > > > > > > http://www.geocities.com/klairbab/ > > > > > > > > I know Microsoft Paint pretty well, so you can imagine my surprise > > > > when I opened up gimp. > > > > > > > > It looks like a paint program but it's not. I discovered I can draw > > > > ellipses and rectangles by "selecting" a path then "stroking" the > > > > path. > > > > > > > > Pretty neat. > > > > > > > > But I'm having a hell of a time selecting and moving objects around. > > > > > > > > It looks like each Text object is being placed its own "layer". > > > > > > > > What exactly is a layer? > > > > Do I select an object by selecting the layer? > > > > Do I move the whole layer? > > > > Does it make sense to draw inside a text object? > > > > Is it an object at all? > > > > > > > > All I need is a monocrome gif, but it would be nice if the resulting > > > > drawing were scalable, one which would grow and shrink if the user > > > > zooms in using the browser. > > > > > > > > Does gimp do that? > > > > > > > > I have friends who use AutoCad and are always talking about scalable, > > > > vector graphics. AutoCad also uses layers, but I've forgotten exactly > > > > what the were. > > > > > > > > Can you help? > > > > > > > > Thanks. > > > > > > > > Joe > > > > http://modern-greek-verbs.tripod.com/ > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Gimp-user mailing list > > > Gimp-user@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU > > > https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user > > >
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