Hi Johannes, Thank you for your answer. Unfortunately I had no chance to went through all emails in this thread yet. I'll scan all of them and if I'll find something where I cannot resist I'll put my view there. I think I'll be finished no later than tomorrow evening.
BTW, you do not need to apologize. Your opinions are valid, even I disagree with some of your statements. Thanks. On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 07:59:20AM -0000, j...@jsschmid.de wrote: > Hi Marcel! > > Thanks for your answer. I disagree with some points but that's perfectly > ok. After rereading my mail it sounded a bit personal and I want to > apologies for that as that wasn't my intention. Also thanks for > summarizing the content of the slovak page. > > To all: The GTP coordination team is carefully discussing this matter and > will decide soon whether we take any action and what that might be. In the > meantime, unless you have something really new I don't think it's worth to > extent this discussion further. > > So, everbody calm down a bit, do your work (that's actually what will > improve the translation status most) and you will hear from us. > > Thanks and regards, > Johannes > > > Hi, > > > > On Fri, May 14, 2010 at 01:19:11AM +0200, Johannes Schmid wrote: > >> Hi! > >> > >> > That's true. But if you have users, it does not automatically mean > >> > you'll have bug reports. Yes, you'll get some of them but it is not > >> > clear if it would be enough. From the past I know most of translation > >> > bugs we found were found during the translation update by translators > >> or > >> > during the review. Our user base is far smaller than German or even > >> > Czech. > >> > >> Note that this is not about the major things (because they will be > >> resolved during review) but about some remaining issues where > >> translators might have had a wrong thought. And people file more bug > >> reports than you think. > > > > It really depends. > > > > In most cases users are not able to find minor bugs easily. If the > > translated string looks reasonable but it is incorrect, the user will be > > hardly able to find the problem. In most cases to find the minor bug you > > need to compare the English original with the translated sentence. This > > is not a task most users do. > > > > If it was not easy for translator/reviewer to find the minor bug I do > > not believe the bug will be found/reported by an average user. > > > > The minor bugs can be find only by hard work in the translation team. > > > >> > >> > > there won't be any users and thus no bug reports. So, I would > >> encourage > >> > > you to drop the final review stage (now). > >> > > >> > To have this done I would have to set up more strict rules to become a > >> > reviewer. I opted for different approach: to allow all members to try > >> to > >> > do the reviewer's job to see how it will go. > >> > > >> > This allows us to catch at least some bugs by current reviewers. And > >> > this brings up a chance for potential good reviewer to show and > >> improve > >> > his work. In case I would allow to review only members to whom I can > >> > trust the proces would slow down even more. > >> > >> Sorry, I see a big problem here. You seem to trust very few people and > >> this will cause problems in an open-source projects. You simply need to > >> trust that people are willing to do good work and they will improve over > >> time. > > > > I review their work. My trust is based on observation. > > > >> > >> > This is not like launchpad. I agree. But the difference is not very > >> big. > >> > To have started a translation you just need to register to the Damned > >> > Lies, join the team, reserve for translation and submit a po file. You > >> > can do it in few minutes. I do not know how launchpad works, but I > >> think > >> > it would be similar easy. > >> > >> Yeah, but you have a po file then. That's great as it brings you a > >> translation for free if the person joins the team or not. There is no > >> point in rejecting those translations just because people didn't want to > >> join the team fully. (Of course, they should fix their stuff when it > >> gets reviewed). > > > > That's true. > > Without joining the team the review would be really hard. > > > >> > >> Also you didn't answer my inital question if you could drop the formal > >> introduction mail. > > > > Sure. I can. But let me elaborate a bit: > > > > In February 2010 few members of our team created a page where they > > summarized several things where the team organization should improve > > (acocrding their opinion). The page is here: > > > > http://live.gnome.org/SlovakTranslation/Others/N%C3%A1vrhy%20na%20zlep%C5%A1enie%20fungovania%20t%C3%ADmu > > > > Entry #1 is about joining the team. Rough (shortened) translation follows: > > > > Simplification of team joining > > ------------------------------ > > > > Supported by: Peter, Roman, Laco, Ivan. > > > > Pavol offered improvements for his web form so it can be used as needed. > > > > > > > > In April Pavol finished his work on the web form and I stated that on > > the page (rough translation): > > > > Status as of 2010-04-20: The web form works as expected. I consider this > > issue resolved. > > > > > > > > Nobody complained. It looked that we solved the issue with the > > registration email. > > > > > > About a month after that Peter picked up this as a reason for the > > coordinator change. > > > > > > > >> > >> > Unfortunatelly, this is not true. Sometimes the workflow knowledge of > >> > new members is poor. > >> > >> They managed to translate and upload the file? What else do they need to > >> know about the workflow as long as they aren't reviewers/committers? > > > > At least two things: > > 1. To use proper action for upload (if not the translation might be > > overlooked by rest of the team). > > 2. To reserve/upload again once the translation is returned back by a > > reviewer. > > > >> Please note that translating the file means that you already had to > >> setup lots of things. > > > > Yes. You need to download a file, start a random text editor, edit the > > file, and finally upload it. > > > >> > I agree. Now, we are in process to have such rules set up. > >> > >> I really wonder that you don't already have translation rules? How did > >> you manage to do things in the past? I think every half-way solid > >> GTP-Team has at least some list of most-used terms. > > > > We are going to be a half-way solid GTP-Team hopefuly soon. > > > >> > > Reviewers will notice when there is an inconsistency within the > >> strings > >> > > and are able to point that out. I think most teams have no problem > >> in > >> > > sharing modules between different translators. > >> > > >> > True. This is why I am doing now final review for all modules. I hope > >> > this will change soon. > >> > >> The reviewers != you - trust in them, they know the language! > > > > This is dangerous definition ("they know the language"). With some > > generalization you said that everybody knows his language in a way > > you'll trust them regararding the language matter. That is simply not > > true. > > > >> > >> > I disagree. It depends. Other translators can select other modules, so > >> > the rules are same for everybody. > >> > > >> > Some people does like to feel that this module is their work and they > >> > are responsible and proud for them. > >> > >> That's ok, but they should then be able to provide a 100% translation by > >> release date and if they cannot do that they will have to give up the > >> module or at least open it for others. > > > > This would be true is everything else is at (or near) 100 %, but not > > true if you are in the middle and there are plenty of untranslated (and > > free) modules. -- +-------------------------------------------+ | Marcel Telka e-mail: mar...@telka.sk | | homepage: http://telka.sk/ | | jabber: mar...@jabber.sk | +-------------------------------------------+ _______________________________________________ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n