Hi Laco! Be patient, we are on it. More or less just a bit of text work left on the final response.
Regards, Johannes > Hi Johannes > > As it is almost two weeks from your last email, I would like to ask > whether you have come to any conclusion, or if not when do you think > you will decide? > > Kind regards > > Laco > > On 18 May 2010 08:59, <j...@jsschmid.de> wrote: >> Hi Marcel! >> >> Thanks for your answer. I disagree with some points but that's perfectly >> ok. After rereading my mail it sounded a bit personal and I want to >> apologies for that as that wasn't my intention. Also thanks for >> summarizing the content of the slovak page. >> >> To all: The GTP coordination team is carefully discussing this matter >> and >> will decide soon whether we take any action and what that might be. In >> the >> meantime, unless you have something really new I don't think it's worth >> to >> extent this discussion further. >> >> So, everbody calm down a bit, do your work (that's actually what will >> improve the translation status most) and you will hear from us. >> >> Thanks and regards, >> Johannes >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> On Fri, May 14, 2010 at 01:19:11AM +0200, Johannes Schmid wrote: >>>> Hi! >>>> >>>> > That's true. But if you have users, it does not automatically mean >>>> > you'll have bug reports. Yes, you'll get some of them but it is not >>>> > clear if it would be enough. From the past I know most of >>>> translation >>>> > bugs we found were found during the translation update by >>>> translators >>>> or >>>> > during the review. Our user base is far smaller than German or even >>>> > Czech. >>>> >>>> Note that this is not about the major things (because they will be >>>> resolved during review) but about some remaining issues where >>>> translators might have had a wrong thought. And people file more bug >>>> reports than you think. >>> >>> It really depends. >>> >>> In most cases users are not able to find minor bugs easily. If the >>> translated string looks reasonable but it is incorrect, the user will >>> be >>> hardly able to find the problem. In most cases to find the minor bug >>> you >>> need to compare the English original with the translated sentence. >>>  This >>> is not a task most users do. >>> >>> If it was not easy for translator/reviewer to find the minor bug I do >>> not believe the bug will be found/reported by an average user. >>> >>> The minor bugs can be find only by hard work in the translation team. >>> >>>> >>>> > > there won't be any users and thus no bug reports. So, I would >>>> encourage >>>> > > you to drop the final review stage (now). >>>> > >>>> > To have this done I would have to set up more strict rules to become >>>> a >>>> > reviewer. I opted for different approach: to allow all members to >>>> try >>>> to >>>> > do the reviewer's job to see how it will go. >>>> > >>>> > This allows us to catch at least some bugs by current reviewers. And >>>> > this brings up a chance for potential good reviewer to show and >>>> improve >>>> > his work. In case I would allow to review only members to whom I can >>>> > trust the proces would slow down even more. >>>> >>>> Sorry, I see a big problem here. You seem to trust very few people and >>>> this will cause problems in an open-source projects. You simply need >>>> to >>>> trust that people are willing to do good work and they will improve >>>> over >>>> time. >>> >>> I review their work. My trust is based on observation. >>> >>>> >>>> > This is not like launchpad. I agree. But the difference is not very >>>> big. >>>> > To have started a translation you just need to register to the >>>> Damned >>>> > Lies, join the team, reserve for translation and submit a po file. >>>> You >>>> > can do it in few minutes. I do not know how launchpad works, but I >>>> think >>>> > it would be similar easy. >>>> >>>> Yeah, but you have a po file then. That's great as it brings you a >>>> translation for free if the person joins the team or not. There is no >>>> point in rejecting those translations just because people didn't want >>>> to >>>> join the team fully. (Of course, they should fix their stuff when it >>>> gets reviewed). >>> >>> That's true. >>> Without joining the team the review would be really hard. >>> >>>> >>>> Also you didn't answer my inital question if you could drop the formal >>>> introduction mail. >>> >>> Sure. I can. But let me elaborate a bit: >>> >>> In February 2010 few members of our team created a page where they >>> summarized several things where the team organization should improve >>> (acocrding their opinion). The page is here: >>> >>> http://live.gnome.org/SlovakTranslation/Others/N%C3%A1vrhy%20na%20zlep%C5%A1enie%20fungovania%20t%C3%ADmu >>> >>> Entry #1 is about joining the team. Rough (shortened) translation >>> follows: >>> >>> Simplification of team joining >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> Supported by: Peter, Roman, Laco, Ivan. >>> >>> Pavol offered improvements for his web form so it can be used as >>> needed. >>> >>> >>> >>> In April Pavol finished his work on the web form and I stated that on >>> the page (rough translation): >>> >>> Status as of 2010-04-20: The web form works as expected. I consider >>> this >>> issue resolved. >>> >>> >>> >>> Nobody complained. It looked that we solved the issue with the >>> registration email. >>> >>> >>> About a month after that Peter picked up this as a reason for the >>> coordinator change. >>> >>> >>> >>>> >>>> > Unfortunatelly, this is not true. Sometimes the workflow knowledge >>>> of >>>> > new members is poor. >>>> >>>> They managed to translate and upload the file? What else do they need >>>> to >>>> know about the workflow as long as they aren't reviewers/committers? >>> >>> At least two things: >>> 1. To use proper action for upload (if not the translation might be >>> overlooked by rest of the team). >>> 2. To reserve/upload again once the translation is returned back by a >>> reviewer. >>> >>>> Please note that translating the file means that you already had to >>>> setup lots of things. >>> >>> Yes. You need to download a file, start a random text editor, edit the >>> file, and finally upload it. >>> >>>> > I agree. Now, we are in process to have such rules set up. >>>> >>>> I really wonder that you don't already have translation rules? How did >>>> you manage to do things in the past? I think every half-way solid >>>> GTP-Team has at least some list of most-used terms. >>> >>> We are going to be a half-way solid GTP-Team hopefuly soon. >>> >>>> > > Reviewers will notice when there is an inconsistency within the >>>> strings >>>> > > and are able to point that out. I think most teams have no problem >>>> in >>>> > > sharing modules between different translators. >>>> > >>>> > True. This is why I am doing now final review for all modules. I >>>> hope >>>> > this will change soon. >>>> >>>> The reviewers != you - trust in them, they know the language! >>> >>> This is dangerous definition ("they know the language"). With some >>> generalization you said that everybody knows his language in a way >>> you'll trust them regararding the language matter. That is simply not >>> true. >>> >>>> >>>> > I disagree. It depends. Other translators can select other modules, >>>> so >>>> > the rules are same for everybody. >>>> > >>>> > Some people does like to feel that this module is their work and >>>> they >>>> > are responsible and proud for them. >>>> >>>> That's ok, but they should then be able to provide a 100% translation >>>> by >>>> release date and if they cannot do that they will have to give up the >>>> module or at least open it for others. >>> >>> This would be true is everything else is at (or near) 100 %, but not >>> true if you are in the middle and there are plenty of untranslated (and >>> free) modules. >>> >>> >>> Thanks. >>> >>> -- >>> +-------------------------------------------+ >>> | Marcel Telka  e-mail:  mar...@telka.sk  | >>> |         homepage: http://telka.sk/ | >>> |         jabber:  mar...@jabber.sk | >>> +-------------------------------------------+ >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> gnome-i18n mailing list >> gnome-i18n@gnome.org >> http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n >> > _______________________________________________ > gnome-i18n mailing list > gnome-i18n@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n > _______________________________________________ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n