Arthur, I see you have put SmartGWT in the JS wrapper camp, is this the case? I haven't heard anything about this library before and had just stumbled across it.
Do you have a web site (or something) where we can find out which GWT libraries are pure GWT and okay to use? IMHO, although I know you steer folks away from the GWT wrapped JS libraries what is sorely needed are mature GWT libraries. Having a list of available GWT libraries would be a helpful start. -Dave On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 7:04 AM, Arthur Kalmenson <arthur.k...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> So you've assumed responsibility for being the GWT saviour by >> educating these developers and saving their project? > > I'm not really assuming any responsibility, I'm just mentioning that > there are draw backs to using these libraries. > >> What makes you so qualified? > > I've had to abandon and rewrite a GWT-ext project because of the said > drawbacks. I've talked with many other people who had to rewrite > ExtGWT and GWT-ext projects. > >> You've expressed your opinion (more than once) so why >> not leave it at that. How would it appear if someone posted in >> response to your every post saying that Arthur is clueless? > > I don't believe I was insulting anyone. And while I've expressed my > opinion (which many here hold), many people are new and don't know the > downside of using these libraries. > >> Or the ZK >> guys saying that GWT sucks in their ads that are all over the place. >> Everyone is entitled to an opinion by going overboard is really not >> necessary. You know what they say about opinions and wanting to give >> them... And you've gone out of your way to voice your opinion even no >> one asked for it. > > How am I going overboard? Dave Ford's comment is indicative that > people appreciate hearing what the down sides are. In order for a > developer to make an informed decision, they need to hear all sides > and try it for themselves. > >> Try to take a deep breath and relax when these libraries are mentioned >> and ignore them instead of assuming the role of GWT gatekeeper. There >> have been stray email questions on various third party libraries like >> GChart and DnD. I don't see you jump in on those threads pointing to >> the appropriate forum. > > That's the thing, if I ignore the posts that tell people to use > ExtGWT, gwt-ext or SmartGWT, and no one bothers to warn them, they > might end up committing substantial resources to these projects and > then have to rewrite them or have them turn out poorly. For example, > see this post > http://groups.google.com/group/Google-Web-Toolkit/msg/7e3ad4486d103b94 > where the developer says load times are slow (it's even slow on my new > MacBook Pro). Had the developer used vanilla GWT, I doubt they would > have run into those problems. > > The biggest problem IMHO is that people use these third party > libraries and think they're using GWT. They find that it's slow and > buggy and attribute it to GWT. Then GWT ends up getting a bad > reputation. People who come to this mailing list need to understand > that ExtGWT, gwt-ext or SmartGWT have almost nothing to do with GWT > and everything to do with the JS libraries they either wrap or attempt > to mimic. That way, if they decide to use these libraries, they'll > understand that they're using that toolkit, and not GWT. > > If I see questions about other third party libraries that go > unanswered, I'll point them to the appropriate mailing list (if one > exists). I can't catch and respond to every post. > > Anyway, I'm tired of arguing this point. If you like and use gwt-ext, > that's up to you. Try not to get so upset when someone points out its > flaws. > -- > Arthur Kalmenson > > > > On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 9:46 AM, Rob Smith <scubacarri...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Arthur, >> So you've assumed responsibility for being the GWT saviour by >> educating these developers and saving their project? What makes you >> so qualified? You've expressed your opinion (more than once) so why >> not leave it at that. How would it appear if someone posted in >> response to your every post saying that Arthur is clueless? Or the ZK >> guys saying that GWT sucks in their ads that are all over the place. >> Everyone is entitled to an opinion by going overboard is really not >> necessary. You know what they say about opinions and wanting to give >> them... And you've gone out of your way to voice your opinion even no >> one asked for it. >> >> Try to take a deep breath and relax when these libraries are mentioned >> and ignore them instead of assuming the role of GWT gatekeeper. There >> have been stray email questions on various third party libraries like >> GChart and DnD. I don't see you jump in on those threads pointing to >> the appropriate forum. >> >> Rob >> >> Full disclosure : I am a contributor to gwt-ext by mostly >> participating in their forums. >> >> On Dec 18, 8:54 am, "Arthur Kalmenson" <arthur.k...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> Hi Rob, >>> >>> Judging from cloudcity's response, not everyone is aware of the draw >>> backs of these libraries (or, as you put it, my position on them). >>> Ignoring an issue is not going to make it go away. I'm letting people >>> know what the draw backs of using these libraries are, because a lot >>> of people are impressed by the shininess but are unaware of the >>> numerous problems. Anyway, I'm not here to start a flame war, I'm just >>> trying to warn people before they commit all their resources to these >>> libraries. >>> >>> -- >>> Arthur Kalmenson >>> >>> On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 4:36 PM, Rob Smith <scubacarri...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> > Did anyone ask you opinion on use of third part libs in this thread. >>> > We know what your position is on using 3rd party libs and you have >>> > made it clear "numerous" times. Repeating the same thing again and >>> > again is just adding noise to this group. Gmail has a wonderful filter >>> > option and you can set yours to ignore any thread that mentions any >>> > lib that you don't care about :) >>> >>> > On Dec 17, 3:34 pm, "Arthur Kalmenson" <arthur.k...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >> I'm hoping that a lot of those things will be added to the incubator >>> >> in the near future. I've mentioned the request for simpler security >>> >> similar to Spring Security's @Secured("ROLE_USER") annotations. Data >>> >> binding and validation frameworks are on their way as well, in the >>> >> near future. >>> >>> >> I would stay away from ExtGWT or SmartGWT though. >>> >>> >> -- >>> >> Arthur Kalmenson >>> >>> >> On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 9:54 AM, mikedshaf...@gmail.com >>> >>> >> <mikedshaf...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> >> > This does bring up a good point and something that is sourly missing. >>> >> > We have cobbled together some very generic type stuff patterned >>> >> > (albeit very low in quality) what we used extensively in Eclipse Rich >>> >> > Client. Maybe the ExtGWT guys or SmartGWT will come up with >>> >> > something. Or if the Eclipse Web Client guys would do GWT.... Or if >>> >> > I could find a spare moment or two, I'd take it on. The whole UI >>> >> > framework beyond "widgets", like editors, views, menus, actions etc. >>> >> > is a sweet spot to be sure that is missing from any of the web >>> >> > frameworks, IMHO. >>> >>> >> > On Dec 17, 6:54 am, "Arthur Kalmenson" <arthur.k...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >> >> There are some things in the incubator for status bars and logging. >>> >> >> The rest you would have to do yourself. >>> >>> >> >> -- >>> >> >> Arthur Kalmenson >>> >>> >> >> On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 2:17 AM, Riyaz Mansoor >>> >> >> <riyaz.mans...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> >> >> > I'm not looking for rich widget sets (Ext, Smart, etc) but rather is >>> >> >> > there a GWT framework that provides basics for a RIA. One that >>> >> >> > handles >>> >> >> > the grunt work such as providing; status bar, xml or other >>> >> >> > configurable menu, error logging report, authentication, security >>> >> >> > etc >>> >>> >> >> > This maybe reaching for the sky but kinda like what Eclipse or >>> >> >> > Netbeans provides as the core platform when developing on those >>> >> >> > platforms.- Hide quoted text - >>> >>> >> >> - Show quoted text - >> > >> > > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Google Web Toolkit" group. To post to this group, send email to Google-Web-Toolkit@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-web-toolkit+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Google-Web-Toolkit?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
