-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I understand that browser plugins are problematic. I wouldn't want to be responsible for building a new plugin for each week's Firefox release. (Obviously, I'm joking.)
But debuggers in current Java IDEs are very robust and full-featured. Every Javascript debugger in every browser that I've ever tried has been inadequate in comparison. Hopefully regular dev mode will live on for long enough for JS debuggers to improve significantly, though I fear that will take a long time. Count me among those who will miss the useful features of the existing dev mode when it goes away. On 07/09/2012 10:51 AM, Thomas Broyer wrote: > > > On Monday, July 9, 2012 3:24:19 PM UTC+2, sanny...@gmail.com > wrote: > > Hello, > > I recently found this topic about Super Dev Mode appearing in GWT > 2.5. I am happy that new way of debugging is coming to the GWT > development process. But I am not happy that there are plans to > discard current DevMode in the future. At least, each official > mentioning of SuperDevMode means that it will replace current > DevMode. > > If this is true, then I am not happy at all. > > Debugging in the IDE of choice was always top feature of GWT for > me. Ability to freely navigate code, use typesafe autocompletion > in evaluate expression boxes, drop stack frame feature and all > other hundreds of java-specific little features is great joy. > Forcing developers to discard all this and be tied to browser is at > least major regress. > > I could not find any discussion on this topic, if there's any, > PLEASE direct me to the page where it all was discussed and > decision was made, i want to see the arguments. I found only > "browser plugins are instable" topic. But people, concept is > already working satisfactory for several years and I don't want to > lose it in future because it is not 100% perfect and crashes > sometimes. > > Telling "source code maps are being implemented in browsers at the > moment" and at the same time arguing that SuperDevMode will make > us browser-independent seems like lame joke. At least, not all > browsers will. But even if all major browsers (Chrome, FF, Safari, > IE) will, source maps is only part of the picture. The debugging in > all browsers has its own interface, keymaps etc, and, as I wrote > above it never compares to the IDE/Native java debugging. In other > words, it does not compare! > > TLDR: questions: 1) Is it true that SuperDevMode will replace > DevMode > > > Who knows? More seriously, you can be assured DevMode will stay for > quite some time. > > > 2) If yes, then for the sake of God, why such regress? > > > Browser plugins are a nightmare to maintain. The plugin for Chrome > is known to be buggy and unstable. Every 6 weeks, the plugin for > Firefox has to be updated (we could choose to only support Firefox > ESR, but I doubt you'd be happy; I wouldn't be). I've heard there > had been issues with the Safari plugin on OS X at some point, due > to a browser upgrade. The only stable plugin for now is the one for > IE, and even that one required some work to make it compatible with > IE9 and the newer versions of Windows. Generally, browser vendors > don't help us maintain plugins. > > Due to this fact, no new plugin is being developed, so debugging > in Opera, or Safari on Windows, won't ever be possible (OK, that's > rhetoric anyway, as nobody minds ;-) ). > > But now we also have to support mobile development: iOS, Chrome > for Android, Firefox Mobile, Windows 8, etc. and those browsers > don't even allow us to use plugins! And that's where SuperDevMode > shines with its plugin-free approach: it brings DevMode to any > single browser out there, at the expense of using the browser's own > dev tools. > > So, what the future is? Honestly, to me, the future is in wire > protocols for JS debuggers. Opera has had one for long, Chrome too. > Mozilla is building one. I can't tell for IE but at least you can > debug a local IE instance so it's better than nothing, and we can > have hopes that DevMode as we know it will be supported for quite a > long time (compared to other browsers). With such protocols, your > IDE could connect to your browser and use SourceMaps to give you > (almost) the same debugging experience as if you were running your > code "natively" (technically, I believe it could also be made so; > based on an experiment I made a few years back to bring DevMode to > Adobe AIR through the Flash debugger). This, to me, is the way > forward. It would however require a tremendous amount of work, so > it's not going to happen any time soon. > http://code.google.com/p/chromedevtools/ could help here I guess, > but it's still a very tiny part of what's needed to bring the same > level of debugging as with the current DevMode. > > 10 years after the Internet Bubble, web dev is only starting to > make its revolution towards "professionalization" (MVC was seen as > a thing of the past until Backbone et al. revived it). GWT is ahead > of its time here with leveraging Java dev tools, but web dev is > still for the most part the same as 10 years ago. console.log > replaced window.alert, but it hasn't really changed. > > I believe, DevMode (as we know it) will fade away, either replaced > by SuperDevMode or something based on it (better integrated in the > IDE), or rewritten atop wire debugging protocols instead of > plugins. It will take time though, and in the mean time DevMode > won't change, and SuperDevMode helps us support new browsers at > virtually no cost. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the > Google Groups "Google Web Toolkit" group. To view this discussion > on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msg/google-web-toolkit/-/sFfm9FdF0_cJ. > To post to this group, send email to > google-web-toolkit@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this > group, send email to > google-web-toolkit+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. 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