what is ininuating in ahmed's mail? did his questions imply any offense to eradicate the space of dialogue (even with the person who support intellectually the brutal killings and other violence)? did he put forward any criterion to engage in discussion like ramachandran does? ramachandran's clear criterion for a discussion presupposes the cpim oriented space, where he can abundantly entertain the same thinking party supporters and never want to engage in a space of 'others'.
no problem in his 'personal' choice. frankly, i cudnt read the linked blog. i dont know if it is some font problem. from others' mails here i came to know that ramchandran was restating the same cpim views alleging the people struggles cia backed and are meant to thwart cpim's greater 'anti-imperialist' politics. who other than cpimists can engage in a dialogue with them when they still repeat the same baseless cia backing!!!? what is wrong in exposing (the self)? mind if it is ugly.. On 4/26/08, damodar prasad <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Dear rafeek ahmed, > On 4/26/08, ahmed rafeek j <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> >> >> >> *Do you really expect "comments' on this stuff? >> Do you believ that this is a way to initiate a dialogue?* > > ** > > Such insinuating remark is reprehensible. In a very similar vein to that of > CPIM, you may have invented some criteria to engage in a discussion. Riding > roughshod over a person because he has a different take on the issues > concerned disproves your own deep concerns of democratic engagement. > > > > > In a dialogue, you must at least show the decency to be >> responsible in puting forward arguments and respond to criticisms.. >> >> You never showed willingness to engage in any dialogue with any of us >> here till now ( except for this latest gesture of forwarding your article) >> >> *I think I should wait till listening from you before making any >> comments on this. >> >> To be frank, your take has no debatable points except for >> reiterarting the oft repeated allegations aginst >> struggling people and political opponents.. I don't think anybody need >> a debate to see the baselessness of it. You are exposing yourself.. >> So much so good* > > . > > > > And you yourself state (a sophisticated form of liberal gesture) that "I > shall wait till listening from you……." And then concludes by saying: "your > take has no debatable points….and you are xposing yourself…" > > > > Mind, everyone is exposing one self > > > > On 4/25/08, Ramachandran G P <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> > >> > those who are interested and got time may read the full text of my >> > article and comment. my article is available in >> > http://ulkazhcha.blogspot.com/ >> > >> > On 4/25/08, ahmed rafeek j <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> > > >> > > but why are we still afraid of realizing the 'fascist' elements of >> > > 'marxism' itself, which creates dictators like stalin, mao, castro, >> > > pinarayi, kim sung (sorry for the spelling), vs, budhadeb.. >> > > >> > > isnt it the marxism itself by its logic of necessity rejects all >> > > social agents other than the 'economic class'? the same logic trying >> > > hard to incorporate all struggles of blacks, women, sexual minorities >> > > and dalits to create their own political subjectivity and public space >> > > into the axis of class struggle.. >> > > >> > > at least, people at struggle in Chengara, nandigram, (may be in tibet) >> > > realize the real marxist opression.. china and chavez >> > > together...pinarayi and budhadeb.. >> > > >> > > Ahmed >> > > >> > > On 4/24/08, ranju radha <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> > > > i think we should read Pinarayi and VS before acquanitng ourselves >> with the >> > > > writings of Stalin and Lenin... bz communism in kerala means >> Pinarayi and V >> > > > S.... even marx comes after them only. >> > > > why? bz they r there to theorise the future of the toiling millions, >> > > > unfortunately!! >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > On 4/24/08, Bobby Kunhu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> > > > > I am fairly unread - illiterate , but why should I read Stalin? I >> strongly >> > > > am prejudiced that he was a fascixst dictator >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > On 23/04/2008, JAYARAJAN. C.N. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> > > > > > First of all , you just collect that book and try to read. I >> > > > > > cheers >> > > > > > appunni >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 11:49 PM, Bobby Kunhu < >> [EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> > > > wrote: >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > was wondering why stalin >> > > > > > > i believe he was a fascist >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > On 23/04/2008, JAYARAJAN. C.N. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Ok. I believe in scientic knowledge. So I am watching your >> wordings >> > > > too. >> > > > > > > > cheers, >> > > > > > > > appunni >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 11:37 PM, ahmed rafeek j >> > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > innocent thoughts....a complete knowledge will lead to the >> > > > absolute >> > > > > > > > > truth, a teacher can enlighten you for better unerstanding >> of pure >> > > > and >> > > > > > > > > flawless marxim....but potential to take shape of fascism >> at any >> > > > time. >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > truth is not somewher existing waiting for us to unfold. >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > gone are the days of enlightenment.... 'truth' is created >> and >> > > > > > > > > constructed through our own discourses...discourses >> dictate our >> > > > > > > > > truths..that's why i became anti-communist and appunni >> became pure >> > > > > > > > > communist (with a bit less knowledge) >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > On 4/23/08, JAYARAJAN. C.N. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> > > > > > > > > > Marx , Mao are just like Bobby and Appunni. Ask yourself >> whether >> > > > god. >> > > > > > > > > > Universal truth? what is it? >> > > > > > > > > > I said that I am not expert in this field. >> > > > > > > > > > Because, I am telling all these things with partial >> knowledge, >> > > > with errors. >> > > > > > > > > > So I am not a teacher in this field. >> > > > > > > > > > As far as I know, communist history is full of rights >> and >> > > > wrongs. So Marx >> > > > > > > > > > may fail to analyse caste equation. Lenin may fail to >> analyise >> > > > about >> > > > > > > > > > democratic content of bolshevik party. Stalin may fail >> in >> > > > establishing >> > > > > > > > > > international communist front. Mao may fail in upkeeping >> > > > fraternity between >> > > > > > > > > > India and China. >> > > > > > > > > > Study from the faults and uphold the rights is to be >> part of >> > > > communists. >> > > > > > > > > > cheers >> > > > > > > > > > appunni >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 10:41 PM, Bobby Kunhu >> > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Is Marx God? >> > > > > > > > > > > Did he percieve the caste equations in Colonial South >> Asia? >> > > > His >> > > > > > > > > > observations on that (what I have read seems ignorant). >> > > > > > > > > > > Then Mao - is there a universal truth in analysing >> hegemony? >> > > > > > > > > > > I am someone seeking questions >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > On 23/04/2008, JAYARAJAN. C.N. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> wrote: >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > dear bobby, >> > > > > > > > > > > > You are asking a simple question. >> > > > > > > > > > > > My simple answer: I am not an >> expert in >> > > > this subject. >> > > > > > > > > > > > If you are interested, I will suggest >> names >> > > > of few books. >> > > > > > > > > > > > cheers, >> > > > > > > > > > > > appunni >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 9:30 PM, Bobby Kunhu >> > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> > > > > > > > > > wrote: >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > simple question >> > > > > > > > > > > > > what is communism >> > > > > > > > > > > > > would like to be educated on that >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > On 23/04/2008, JAYARAJAN. C.N. < >> [EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> > > > wrote: >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > dear friend, >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are asking so many >> questions >> > > > which both you >> > > > > > > > > > and me can not answer. More over, you are not expecting >> a reply >> > > > as those >> > > > > > > > > > questions are reserved with your answers. >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let me repeat. CPI(M) does >> not >> > > > represent a >> > > > > > > > > > communist party. Every rightist forces know this well. >> So they >> > > > are utilising >> > > > > > > > > > this to attack communist parties. >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chengara struggle may be >> conducted >> > > > with or >> > > > > > > > > > without the leadership of a communist party. On the >> other hand, >> > > > a communist >> > > > > > > > > > party shall uphold the slogan ' land for tiller' and >> their new >> > > > democratic >> > > > > > > > > > revolutionary movements shall incorporate that slogan as >> its >> > > > main axis. This >> > > > > > > > > > should be the strategy of a communist party as the >> objective >> > > > condtions in >> > > > > > > > > > India like countries are accordingly. >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Therefore, a communist party >> should >> > > > support all >> > > > > > > > > > land struggles like 'Chengara' and should lead it if >> necessary. >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > cheers, >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > appunni >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 8:39 PM, ahmed rafeek j >> > > > > > > > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > communist parties ?!!!! >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > please advise why people at struggle in >> Chengara need >> > > > a communist >> > > > > > > > > > party. >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > does anybody need to symbolize cpim as >> communist >> > > > party? what does >> > > > > > > > > > make >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > a communist party really a communist party? >> what are >> > > > the signs of >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 'purity'? is there any single communist party >> which >> > > > doesnt say >> > > > > > > > > > that >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > they are the 'original'? why do we need to run >> after >> > > > each >> > > > > > > > > > communist >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > party to test whether it is real or no? what >> kind of >> > > > great >> > > > > > > > > > revolution >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > u r planning to do and in which century? >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ahmed >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 4/23/08, JAYARAJAN. C.N. < >> [EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> > > > wrote: >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Friends, >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is a usual tactics of rightist >> forces >> > > > and rightist >> > > > > > > > > > medias by >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > symbolising CPI(M) as a real communist >> party, >> > > > exposing that >> > > > > > > > > > party and >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > generalising that communist parties are like >> this. >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is unfortunate that even many >> > > > progressive thinking >> > > > > > > > > > people are >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > also repeating the same blah blahs. >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > cheers, >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > appunni >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 12:03 AM, ranju >> radha >> > > > > > > > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > oho...now it s clear comrade >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it s to save the world from US imperialism >> that >> > > > those bloody >> > > > > > > > > > CPM cadres >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > raped and killed Dalits in Nandigram .. >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and damn those women cadres of CPM, who >> asked >> > > > "what was that >> > > > > > > > > > dalit woman >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > doing in the field at 4am" (where else will >> she >> > > > shit? and what >> > > > > > > > > > were comrades >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > doing in the field? reading communist >> manifesto?!!) >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > what a great revolutionary act >> comrades!!!!!! >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 4/22/08, ahmed rafeek j >> > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > feel sorry for him... >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > but good that he broke his silence at >> least in >> > > > chintha. it >> > > > > > > > > > was a bit >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > suspensful for me when i see many >> responses to >> > > > him and some >> > > > > > > > > > even >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > requested for his response on Chengara >> and some >> > > > threatened >> > > > > > > > > > with >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > spaaaaaaaam mails. >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > but he just repeated what pinarayi n all >> said >> > > > proving that >> > > > > > > > > > all of them >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > are really 'red'. as k.k.koch rightly >> said, >> > > > communism is as >> > > > > > > > > > dangerous >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > as fascism to the indigenous people >> around the >> > > > world. >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ahmed >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 4/22/08, Dileep Raj < >> [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In an article in Chinta weekly >> > > > GPramachandran (2008 >> > > > > > > > > > April 18) >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > justifies CPIM's abti democratic >> standpoints/ >> > > > actions on >> > > > > > > > > > Tibet, >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nandigram, >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chengara and Arayamkudi. He alleges >> that there >> > > > are >> > > > > > > > > > 'objective' >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > evidences for >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > America's interventions >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in Kerala. >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nandigram and chengara are being >> manipulated >> > > > by certain >> > > > > > > > > > forces to >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > thwart >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wider unity >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > formed aginst USimperialism, >> > > > globalisation,communalisation >> > > > > > > > > > and >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > fascism.(p.23) >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In Nandigram and Kolkotta, certain >> forces are >> > > > 'depicting' >> > > > > > > > > > CPIM as >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > enemy and >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > unleashing >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > attacks by siding with Congress, BJP, >> > > > Thrunamool, Maoists >> > > > > > > > > > and Islamic >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Fundamentalists (pp24--25) >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > He concludes the article by stating >> that " we >> > > > should take >> > > > > > > > > > it seriously >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > anti communists are able to >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > create a group political hysteria >> around >> > > > nandigram issue." >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dileep R I thuravoor >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > -- >> > > > > > > > Bobby Kunhu >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > G P Ramachandran >> > AKAM, PERIMBADARI PO >> > MANNARKKAD, PALAKKAD DT >> > KERALA, INDIA >> > 04924 223990, 09447239544 >> > >> > > >> > >> >> > > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Green Youth Movement" group. 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