I don't know the reasons for Samir Amin to equate communitarian politics in general as another form of neo-liberal theocratic attempt... Probably it is another Marxist reductionism... I might agree with him a little bit in that this is likely to happen when and where Islam is the dominant discourse. But it can have an entirely different meaning in societies like India where it is in fight with other dominant discourses….
I have problems in generalizing Islamic politics as communitarian irrespective of space and time… We have seen its role changing from communitarian to conservative and autocratic forms in Muslim dominated societies… Compare its role in Iran in pre-revolution period with that in post revolution period… See how it raises the Sunni discourse In Iran and Iraq and Shiite one in Sunni dominated rest of the world… Sunni Islamic politics is dangerously hegemonic in Pakistan similar to Hindutwa in India…There I don't think it can be considered as communitarian. I would like to call it as conservative rather… In India Islamic Politics raises the minority question for equal citizenship… Again I won't generalize it… I have entirely different opinions regarding political ideologies of Indian Jama'at –e –Islami and the likes… They were not identifying it as a minority discourse at all… Of course there is some change in stance after Babri Masjid demolition and recently after Gujarat riots…Even in this relatively subordinate role there are multiple discourses struggling within it for claiming space. We have to problemise Islamic politics with all these differences. On Wed, May 7, 2008 at 3:03 PM, C.K. Vishwanath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > How do you describe this islamic-communitarian > attempt to capture power?As samir amin mentioned-Is it > just another neo-liberal theocratic attempt? > --- Afthab Ellath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > I agree with you ... The phrasing of reform is a > > wrong way of understanding > > the recent struggles in Islam for claiming space... > > > > 2) The works of Islamist theorists like Maududi and > > Said Qutub, the > > ideological framework that led to formation of the > > Islamic state of Iran , > > the Taliban regime etc, and recent armed political > > struggles in many > > Islamic countries, the attempt is to define a > > structural alternative to > > Western liberalism and Marxism... This is something > > common in the mainstream > > Islamic thought... Islam is proposed as the solution > > to all the problems... > > I don't think it is as easy to gain political > > power(I mean government > > power), with evangelical Christianity or Hindu > > revivalism as with Islamism > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, May 6, 2008 at 5:05 PM, damodar prasad > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wrote: > > > > > Dear Aftab, > > > > > > I have a deep suspicicon about the idea of > > 'reform' no matter whether it > > > happens from within or outside. By phrasing the > > ongoing dilaogues, > > > intercactions, struggles, stunts or fights or > > whatever as 'reform' is in > > > effect borrowing the idea of 'reformation' of a > > primitive order as being > > > popularized in several 'civilizing' discourses. > > (By Reform, as I understand, > > > is an intentional act to liberalize a highly > > regulated order and this > > > regulation is done based on several constituent > > principles). When u say > > > 'reforms' u r also unknowingly accpeting the > > notions of 'moderate'& > > > 'extermist' islam. I think all these are nothing > > new. > > > > > > 2) I really didn't understand what u intended by > > "traditional islam" is > > > another "grand narrative". (Grand narrative as > > used in explaining "marxism") > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 5/6/08, Afthab Ellath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wrote: > > > > > > > Salim, > > > > I think Traditional Islam is another grant > > narrative, placed against the > > > > enlightment ideals that we have seen > > strengthening in the post marxist era > > > > ... Islam that we know is deeply rooted in th > > Arab culture as well... The > > > > very existence of the autocratic regimes in the > > Arab world (note the > > > > existence of more democratic governments in > > non-arab Islamic countries) has > > > > also to be problemized in this context... It is > > much more deeper than the > > > > macro power structures...It is deeply embeded in > > the believe system... > > > > Whether it is Saddam or Musharraf, the attempts > > made were to find solutions > > > > from the modern/secularist ideals... When > > Musharaff tried to revoke some > > > > provisions from the monstrous anti-blasphamy > > laws in 2004, there were big > > > > resistence and he had to revoke them... > > > > > > > > There are some recent attempts to re-interpret > > Islam from other > > > > prespectives(mini narratives0.. Obviously one of > > them is the feminist > > > > reading... Works of Amina Wadud, Fatema > > Mernissi, Asra Nomani, Leila Ahmed > > > > etc. are to name a few.. One of the important > > attempt in India was Daud > > > > Sherifa's to build a women's only mosque in > > Tamil Nadu... The hate towards > > > > homosexuality within Islam, is also getting > > problemized... > > > > > > > > I think the reforms will be coming from > > within... Any attempt to bring > > > > another grant narrative to replace it will be > > disastrous... The increase in > > > > violence both sectarian and that against women > > in post September 11 world, > > > > is the evidence > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > Afthab > > > > > > > > On Tue, May 6, 2008 at 2:29 PM, salimtk > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > but.....damodar was questioning the idea of > > being 'modern' and > > > > > 'secular' for being anti-imperialism. and he > > was to problemize the words > > > > > modern and secular.. (i believe). > > > > > > > > > > that idea of anti-imperialism is as > > euro-centric as imperialsim. > > > > > fancying of modern secular scientific grand > > universal marxist > > > > > anti-imperialist movement is not 'really' > > anti-imperialist. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 5/6/08, Murali K Warier > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Apparently not. That's why Ahmedinejad, the > > Hamas, Fidel Castro and > > > > > > Hugo Chavez all become front runners in the > > 'anti-imperialistic' struggle. > > > > > > After all, 'we were all Hezbollah' for a > > week or so, weren't we? > > > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > Murali > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, May 6, 2008 at 1:08 PM, damodar > > prasad < > > > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > dear salim, > > > > > > > I really doubt whether anti-imperialism > > whether anti-imperialism > > > > > > > is synonymous with secular and modern!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > damodar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > Liberty, if it means anything, is the right > > to tell people what they > > > > > > don't want to hear. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > Be a better friend, newshound, and > know-it-all with Yahoo! 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