sorry pls read it as ... > > > if occupation is the issue, why a Dalit professor still considered > "untouchable" by secular indian society. > take the cases of IITs, AIIMS, Central universities etc > and dont forget how we the modern individual indians treated K R narayanan > the President of India > > caste is not an occupational hazard > that s why Ambedkar pointd out that caste is also the division of > labourers... occupation is secondary. even if a dalit breaks that barrier, > the society will consider him/her as "untouchable" which millions of Dalits > across the country understood vis-a-vis their lived expereince in > caste-indian society. > > > > > > On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 5:22 AM, sreenivas v.p > <[email protected]>wrote: > >> Hello Bobby , >> >> Traditional societies have the specific characteristic that they do not >> think of man as an individual , but rather as a member of a collectivity . >> overall ordear of the society is of supreme value , not for individual >> liberty . So specifically in the indian context , continuation of this >> hierarchical ranking (as hierarchy as the indian notion of equality) is >> achieved through division of occupation . >> And i agree with you on the point that christinaity is not much better in >> this regard( Dalits converted into christianity in south india were forced >> to come back to hinduism because of the extreme caste based descrimination >> in that religion) . >> >> But in the christian west (atleast in United states ), this notion of >> hierarchy is replaced by ideas of individuality where nobody is given >> partcular respect or recognition based on >> their occupation . >> >> Note : my ideas of athiesm originated from the fact that an imaginary >> master is not essential to lead a peaceful , happy life . I am not bothered >> about the nonsense called religion . But i had to struggle a lot to escape >> from the shackles of the religion which i was born: hinduism . >> >> sreenivas >> >> --- On *Wed, 1/4/09, Bobby Kunhu <[email protected]>* wrote: >> >> >> From: Bobby Kunhu <[email protected]> >> Subject: [GreenYouth] Re: Fwd: Slums of India.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! >> To: [email protected] >> Date: Wednesday, 1 April, 2009, 9:08 PM >> >> Dear Sreenivas >> try working this out at the opposite end - repression used as a tool for >> occupational heredity. >> caste and community might work just based on heredity in the south asian >> context regardless of religion - your fav religion christianity might be the >> biggest culprit in that context (i am aware of your athiesm) >> Warmly >> >> 2009/4/1 sreenivas v.p >> <[email protected]<http://in.mc87.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]> >> > >> >>> >>> but occupation is used as a tool of repression. the hindu notion of >>> "dharma " >>> was does not signify "duty" but the economic and political superiority of >>> the high caste >>> over low caste. considering caste system as way of economic exploitation >>> , there is relation between occupation and caste . >>> >>> >>> >>> *, 31/3/09, ranju radha >>> <[email protected]<http://in.mc87.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]> >>> >* wrote: >>> >>> >>> From: ranju radha >>> <[email protected]<http://in.mc87.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]> >>> > >>> Subject: [GreenYouth] Re: Fwd: Slums of India.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! >>> To: >>> [email protected]<http://in.mc87.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]> >>> Date: Tuesday, 31 March, 2009, 9:07 PM >>> >>> >>> caste has very little to do with occuppation, i think >>> that s why a Brahmin Director of IIT like Indiresan and a Brahmin beggar >>> in the strets believe that they are superior and meritorious and practise it >>> religiously >>> >>> one can even observe how Brahmin subordinates behave with Dalit/OBC >>> bosses.. >>> so typical EMSisn way of looking at caste will lead to Katju only >>> unfortunately, we have more katjus around >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 5:15 PM, C.K. Vishwanath < >>> [email protected]<http://in.mc87.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]> >>> > wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> justice katju's position is like dipankar gupta...a dominant trend of >>>> indian society-----caste has lost its traditional role ,politicians use it >>>> for vested interests ,caste and its relation with occuption is changing. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> --- On Tue, 31/3/09, ranju radha >>>> <[email protected]<http://in.mc87.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]>> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> > From: ranju radha >>>> > <[email protected]<http://in.mc87.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]> >>>> > >>>> > Subject: [GreenYouth] Re: Fwd: Slums of India.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! >>>> > To: >>>> > [email protected]<http://in.mc87.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]> >>>> > Date: Tuesday, 31 March, 2009, 4:56 PM >>>> > by the by, sanjeev, why do u >>>> > think that all the "anti-social" elements >>>> > will have a membersship in greenyouth? (....hahaha..).. >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > in fact this Katju is that katju who wrote series of >>>> > artcles in The Hindu elaboratig the greatness of caste >>>> > system! >>>> > >>>> > great secularist indeed!! >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 2:22 PM, S >>>> > sanjeev >>>> > <[email protected]<http://in.mc87.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]> >>>> > >>>> > wrote: >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > is this katju guy a >>>> > member of greenyouth? >>>> > remember, the debate >>>> > here sometime ago that bearded guys are anti-social elements >>>> > who live in utopia:-) >>>> > >>>> > --- On Tue, 31/3/09, ranju radha >>>> > <[email protected]<http://in.mc87.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]> >>>> > >>>> > wrote: >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > From: ranju radha >>>> > <[email protected]<http://in.mc87.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]> >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > Subject: [GreenYouth] Re: Fwd: Slums of >>>> > India.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! >>>> > To: >>>> [email protected]<http://in.mc87.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]> >>>> > Date: Tuesday, 31 March, 2009, 10:24 AM >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > in fact, even indian >>>> > judiciary wont let you claim that >>>> > status. >>>> > see justice KAtju's >>>> > brahimnical secular stand that stereotypes >>>> > 'muslim' >>>> > pathetic! >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > http://www.hindu.com/2009/03/31/stories/2009033159561000.htm >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > Secularism >>>> > cannot be overstretched: Justice Katju >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > New Delhi: Rejecting the plea of a Muslim student that >>>> > he should be permitted to sport beard in his convent school, >>>> > the Supreme Court on Monday observed that secularism could >>>> > not be overstretched and “Talibanisation” of the country >>>> > could not be permitted. >>>> > >>>> > “We don’t want to have Talibans in the country. >>>> > Tomorrow a girl student may come and say that she wants to >>>> > wear a burqa. Can we allow it,” asked Justice Markandey >>>> > Katju, speaking for a Bench headed by Justice Raveendran. >>>> > Asserting that he was a secularist to the core, Justice >>>> > Katju, however, said religious beliefs could not be >>>> > overstretched. “I am secularist. We should strike a >>>> > balance between rights and personal beliefs. We cannot >>>> > overstretch secularism.” >>>> > Plea dismissed >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > Justice Katju made these observations while dismissing >>>> > the petition by Mohammad Salim of the Nirmala Convent Higher >>>> > Secondary School, a government-recognised minority >>>> > institution in Madhya Pradesh, for quashing its regulation >>>> > requiring students to be clean shaven. Challenging a Madhya >>>> > Pradesh High Court verdict that earlier dismissed his plea, >>>> > Salim said every citizen was entitled to follow his >>>> > religious principles and no one should restrain him from >>>> > doing so in a secular country. >>>> > >>>> > Salim’s counsel Justice (retired) B.A. Khan argued >>>> > that sporting a beard was an indispensable part of Islam. >>>> > >>>> > “But you [Justice Khan] don’t sport a beard,” >>>> > Justice Katju told counsel. >>>> > The court then said a minority institution had its own >>>> > set of rules and rights provided by Article 30 of the >>>> > Constitution and the same could not be breached by any >>>> > person. “If there are rules you have to obey. You can’t >>>> > say that I will not wear a uniform I will [wear] only a >>>> > burqa,” the Bench observed. >>>> > >>>> > The court said if the student was not interested in >>>> > following the rules he would have the option of joining some >>>> > other institution. “But you can’t ask the school to >>>> > change the rules for you.” — PTI >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > - Dr B.R. Ambedkar, Mahad Satyagraha Conference, December >>>> > 25th , 1927 >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> >>>> >>>> Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Go to >>>> http://messenger.yahoo.com/invite/ >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> - Dr B.R. Ambedkar, Mahad Satyagraha Conference, December 25th , 1927 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> Bollywood news, movie reviews, film trailers and more! Click here. >>>> >>>> <http://in.rd.yahoo.com/tagline_movies_1/*http://in.movies.yahoo.com/?wm=n/> >>>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Bobby Kunhu http://community.eldis.org/myshkin/Blog/ >> >> ------------------------------ >> Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Invite them now. >> >> >> >> <http://in.rd.yahoo.com/tagline_messenger_6/*http://messenger.yahoo.com/invite/> >> >> > > > -- > " The so called caste-hindus are bitterly opposed to the depressed class > using a public tank not because they really believe that the water will be > thereby spoiled or will evaporate but because they are afraid of losing > their superiority of caste and of equality being established between the > former and the latter. We are resorting to this satyagraha not becasue we > believe that the water of this particular tank has any exceptional > qualities, but to establish our natural rights as citizens and human > beings." > > > - Dr B.R. Ambedkar, Mahad Satyagraha Conference, December 25th , 1927 > > >
-- " The so called caste-hindus are bitterly opposed to the depressed class using a public tank not because they really believe that the water will be thereby spoiled or will evaporate but because they are afraid of losing their superiority of caste and of equality being established between the former and the latter. We are resorting to this satyagraha not becasue we believe that the water of this particular tank has any exceptional qualities, but to establish our natural rights as citizens and human beings." - Dr B.R. Ambedkar, Mahad Satyagraha Conference, December 25th , 1927 --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Green Youth Movement" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/greenyouth?hl=en-GB -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
