--------------------------------------------------
From: "jim grimsby Jr." <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 11:19 PM
To: "Tyler Spivey" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: A suggestion for Window-eyes
sure but the problem is to get this functionality you would have to update
this script everytime you wanted to define a key. having it supported
internally would mean you could do it on the fly from the keyboard manager
hotkeys section of window-eyes. so while it can be done with an auto hot
key script it is not very practical in the long run. this support should
be
built in to window-eyes it self. sorry to put it this way but it is so
easy
to get this job done with other screen readers like jaws that saying oh
code
this and update the code every time you want to change a key is just not
going to fly.
window-eyes it self needs to be more aggressive with the keyboard and it
needs to be supported in every script across the board. brows mode on
and
off and no I am not talking about turning it off and on when it thinks it
needs to be off like other screen readers do like jaws and nvda needs to
go
away. we don't have mouse mode and application mode we have mouse hot
keys
and cursoring keys nothing to turn on and off and the document buffer for
office brows mode etc needs to be the same way. with keys that have a
modifiers and when you want to you can just work with the underlaying
program. we need to be able to define what ever key we want in script
manager with out fear of pressing a key windows is using and getting a
nice
gw tool kit error.
an example switch to the jaws layout in windows 7. now try using the
windows and numpad commands. at some point you will find that instead of
moving the mouse where you think that keyboard definition should your
going
to minamize the program your working in etc. I am all for scripting in
fact
I was one of the biggest supports of it during the scripting debate and I
love the added functionality I get from scripts even if I can't think of
anything I want to script right now. the fact is though not every thing
can
or should be done with a script and this is one of them. also we clearly
need more modifiers' to avoid having to use extremely strange keyboard
combonations. as for me I put everything on the numpad and that worked
grate I even had full use of the numpad for moving the cursor tell we lost
the ability to define windows numpad keys. the idea here is not to find
ways to buy pass keys. we already have this. the idea here is to provide
more keyboard combos that can we used easily by the user. avoid the trap
of
pads and modes unless the user really wants them. a mouse pad etc might
not
be a bad idea but lets not force it on people. I just want one mode where
I
can press a key and if the situation is right it goes and does it. no
brows
mode on off no mouse cursor on and off that is one of my biggist
complaints
when I use jaws. oh I pressed the down arrow um oops the jaws cursor was
on. oh I just press hi and was told no list ittoms or no headings oops
forgot to turn brows mode off. oh was typing in this window and windows
live mail decided I needed brows mode again. not trying to be harsh here
but what we need can not be done with a simple script. we need aggressive
keyboard support built in and we need the ability to define commands in
what
ever way we like to meat our own personal needs.
now this is not to say that I am unhappy with window-eyes because I am
not.
window-eyes is a wonderful program and gw micro does a wonderful job. but
with every program there are stringths and weeknesses and this is just
one
of window-eyes's week points. I speak up here because I would love to see
this get improved.
also considering the fact that the brows mode is being worked on it would
be
to everyones advantage for this to get done when it is reworked so you can
just use it and it works.
nothing to turn on or off just press the key like caps lock h for heading
and it goes there. if your on a edit box and you need to type hi my name
is
jim then just type hi my name is jim. no oh did it turn off for me.
just my thoughts on the matter.
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Tyler Spivey" <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 10:17 PM
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: A suggestion for Window-eyes
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You already have this ability, if you're willing to code a bit. You
mensioned autohotkey, and it can probably do what you want. I myself
wrote and use caps_modifier (link should be in the archives) to give
me a laptop layout using the caps key, and it is just an autohotkey
script calling ExecuteHotkey in one of the WindowEyes objects. The
only slight annoyance is that I have to reload it every time wineyes
restarts, but that's just a quick caps+pause away.
If you wanted, you could undefine all of the WE hotkeys and have an
Autohotkey script take them over, and it should work fine.
jim grimsby Jr. wrote:
well double clicking keys is non-standard but many programs can and do
dfrencheate between left control right control alt etc. an example is
auto
hot key. also if window-eyes had this ability to do so you would never
probably run out of keyboard space because you would be adding a whole
lot
of prefixes. lets see left and right control left and right shift.
combos
of the four shift control control shift if you added order etc. you
could
also do this with the ensert windows alts so you could even have combos
like
left right alt left and right windows left and right controls etc.
caps lock scrole lock aps could also be added. maybe not the aps key
but
everything else could. window-eyes could be aggressive with keyboard
hooking like auto hot key so if you assigned a command that windows was
using like lets say left windows r window-eyes would get the command.
you
see this method would provide more keyboard combos and be much more
powerful
then double clicking keys. also with more keyboard space we could get
rid
of brows mode on and off and just use the brows mode commands with a
prefix
like caps lock and then when it came time to interact with the browser
you
could just issue the normal browser command. double clicking keys is
not
going to give you that kind of flexibility also if window-eyes could
have
the ability to allow commands to use the same key when it is pressed
more
then once. for example left+ctrl+s speak summery pressing it twice
would
give you the system tray for example. this would give you the user
even
more power. c
of course I am coming from a program that gave me all of these features
not
the double control so I guess it is just what your used to.
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Mary Otten" <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 5:56 PM
To: "gw-info" <[email protected]>; "john schwery"
<[email protected]>
Subject: Re: A suggestion for Window-eyes
um why not just have window-eyes be able to assign commands like this
to
the
left or right control. so left control t would be the window-eyes
command
and right controll t would do what ever control t does.
Because for many people, its difficult to press control or alt letter
combinations with just one hand. And its also quicker to double tap the
control key and then hit a letter than it is to do a multi-finger combo
for the by-pass key, assuming you remember that combo in the first
place. this way, all you do is remember that you need to double click
the control key if you want to pass that keystroke through to the
application. I was a Winvision user way back when, and this was a nice
feature, simple to remember, requiring no special dexterity etc.
mary
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