This is leading right into a discussion that eventually crops up every now and then with valid points made for both sides of the discussion. I am referring to a keyboard driver. The question is should WindowEyes have its own keyboard driver? This isn't as easy a question as you might think. There are pluses and minuses to this and a lot of it is admittedly over my head, but I know for example I have no issue using a program like keytweak which would allow me to remap an alt key to say a windows key. I can do this with WindowEyes because it has no keyboard driver to get in the way. That is just one example, but I'll leave it to the programmers on the list and hopefully the folks at GW Micro to explain the drawbacks and benefits of having a keyboard driver. I think it would be a good discussion here.
--Regards, --Rick alfaro [email protected] -----Original Message----- From: jim grimsby Jr. [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2010 2:33 AM To: gw-info Subject: Fw: A suggestion for Window-eyes -------------------------------------------------- From: "jim grimsby Jr." <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 11:19 PM To: "Tyler Spivey" <[email protected]> Subject: Re: A suggestion for Window-eyes > sure but the problem is to get this functionality you would have to update > this script everytime you wanted to define a key. having it supported > internally would mean you could do it on the fly from the keyboard manager > hotkeys section of window-eyes. so while it can be done with an auto hot > key script it is not very practical in the long run. this support should > be > built in to window-eyes it self. sorry to put it this way but it is so > easy > to get this job done with other screen readers like jaws that saying oh > code > this and update the code every time you want to change a key is just not > going to fly. > window-eyes it self needs to be more aggressive with the keyboard and it > needs to be supported in every script across the board. brows mode on > and > off and no I am not talking about turning it off and on when it thinks it > needs to be off like other screen readers do like jaws and nvda needs to > go > away. we don't have mouse mode and application mode we have mouse hot > keys > and cursoring keys nothing to turn on and off and the document buffer for > office brows mode etc needs to be the same way. with keys that have a > modifiers and when you want to you can just work with the underlaying > program. we need to be able to define what ever key we want in script > manager with out fear of pressing a key windows is using and getting a > nice > gw tool kit error. > an example switch to the jaws layout in windows 7. now try using the > windows and numpad commands. at some point you will find that instead of > moving the mouse where you think that keyboard definition should your > going > to minamize the program your working in etc. I am all for scripting in > fact > I was one of the biggest supports of it during the scripting debate and I > love the added functionality I get from scripts even if I can't think of > anything I want to script right now. the fact is though not every thing > can > or should be done with a script and this is one of them. also we clearly > need more modifiers' to avoid having to use extremely strange keyboard > combonations. as for me I put everything on the numpad and that worked > grate I even had full use of the numpad for moving the cursor tell we lost > the ability to define windows numpad keys. the idea here is not to find > ways to buy pass keys. we already have this. the idea here is to provide > more keyboard combos that can we used easily by the user. avoid the trap > of > pads and modes unless the user really wants them. a mouse pad etc might > not > be a bad idea but lets not force it on people. I just want one mode where > I > can press a key and if the situation is right it goes and does it. no > brows > mode on off no mouse cursor on and off that is one of my biggist > complaints > when I use jaws. oh I pressed the down arrow um oops the jaws cursor was > on. oh I just press hi and was told no list ittoms or no headings oops > forgot to turn brows mode off. oh was typing in this window and windows > live mail decided I needed brows mode again. not trying to be harsh here > but what we need can not be done with a simple script. we need aggressive > keyboard support built in and we need the ability to define commands in > what > ever way we like to meat our own personal needs. > now this is not to say that I am unhappy with window-eyes because I am > not. > window-eyes is a wonderful program and gw micro does a wonderful job. but > with every program there are stringths and weeknesses and this is just > one > of window-eyes's week points. I speak up here because I would love to see > this get improved. > also considering the fact that the brows mode is being worked on it would > be > to everyones advantage for this to get done when it is reworked so you can > just use it and it works. > nothing to turn on or off just press the key like caps lock h for heading > and it goes there. if your on a edit box and you need to type hi my name > is > jim then just type hi my name is jim. no oh did it turn off for me. > just my thoughts on the matter. > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Tyler Spivey" <[email protected]> > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 10:17 PM > To: <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: A suggestion for Window-eyes > >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >> Hash: SHA512 >> >> You already have this ability, if you're willing to code a bit. You >> mensioned autohotkey, and it can probably do what you want. I myself >> wrote and use caps_modifier (link should be in the archives) to give >> me a laptop layout using the caps key, and it is just an autohotkey >> script calling ExecuteHotkey in one of the WindowEyes objects. The >> only slight annoyance is that I have to reload it every time wineyes >> restarts, but that's just a quick caps+pause away. >> >> If you wanted, you could undefine all of the WE hotkeys and have an >> Autohotkey script take them over, and it should work fine. >> >> jim grimsby Jr. wrote: >>> well double clicking keys is non-standard but many programs can and do >>> dfrencheate between left control right control alt etc. an example is >>> auto >>> hot key. also if window-eyes had this ability to do so you would never >>> probably run out of keyboard space because you would be adding a whole >>> lot >>> of prefixes. lets see left and right control left and right shift. >>> combos >>> of the four shift control control shift if you added order etc. you >>> could >>> also do this with the ensert windows alts so you could even have combos >>> like >>> left right alt left and right windows left and right controls etc. >>> caps lock scrole lock aps could also be added. maybe not the aps key >>> but >>> everything else could. window-eyes could be aggressive with keyboard >>> hooking like auto hot key so if you assigned a command that windows was >>> using like lets say left windows r window-eyes would get the command. >>> you >>> see this method would provide more keyboard combos and be much more >>> powerful >>> then double clicking keys. also with more keyboard space we could get >>> rid >>> of brows mode on and off and just use the brows mode commands with a >>> prefix >>> like caps lock and then when it came time to interact with the browser >>> you >>> could just issue the normal browser command. double clicking keys is >>> not >>> going to give you that kind of flexibility also if window-eyes could >>> have >>> the ability to allow commands to use the same key when it is pressed >>> more >>> then once. for example left+ctrl+s speak summery pressing it twice >>> would >>> give you the system tray for example. this would give you the user >>> even >>> more power. c >>> of course I am coming from a program that gave me all of these features >>> not >>> the double control so I guess it is just what your used to. >>> >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------- >>> From: "Mary Otten" <[email protected]> >>> Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 5:56 PM >>> To: "gw-info" <[email protected]>; "john schwery" >>> <[email protected]> >>> Subject: Re: A suggestion for Window-eyes >>> >>>>> um why not just have window-eyes be able to assign commands like this >>>>> to >>>>> the >>>>> left or right control. so left control t would be the window-eyes >>>>> command >>>>> and right controll t would do what ever control t does. >>>> Because for many people, its difficult to press control or alt letter >>>> combinations with just one hand. And its also quicker to double tap the >>>> control key and then hit a letter than it is to do a multi-finger combo >>>> for the by-pass key, assuming you remember that combo in the first >>>> place. this way, all you do is remember that you need to double click >>>> the control key if you want to pass that keystroke through to the >>>> application. I was a Winvision user way back when, and this was a nice >>>> feature, simple to remember, requiring no special dexterity etc. >>>> >>>> mary >>>> >>>> If you reply to this message it will be delivered to the original >>>> sender >>>> only. If your reply would benefit others on the list and your message >>>> is >>>> related to GW Micro, then please consider sending your message to >>>> [email protected] so the entire list will receive it. >>>> >>>> GW-Info messages are archived at http://www.gwmicro.com/gwinfo. You can >>>> manage your list subscription at http://www.gwmicro.com/listserv. >>>> >>> If you reply to this message it will be delivered to the original sender >>> only. If your reply would benefit others on the list and your message is >>> related to GW Micro, then please consider sending your message to >>> [email protected] so the entire list will receive it. >>> >>> GW-Info messages are archived at http://www.gwmicro.com/gwinfo. You can >>> manage your list subscription at http://www.gwmicro.com/listserv. >>> >> >> >> - -- >> Tyler Spivey - PGP Key ID: 0xae742aaf >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- >> Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (MingW32) >> Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ >> >> iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJLtCxPAAoJEPb0SlyudCqvN48P/2+ZDBDhUqZ0c+AFM+zL0evo >> 6NDqEz6BW53JjFJdnZgmNO2/U2rJ8pj785FfuLePVZt47dHihjSAAkPFF3Zjop8V >> RMAF0WEqNsjGfUF9AnGIRIIKkFDC30StzHi2WeH4MfAt/3lz75cPlsT+U8HtqPL4 >> U4btHIA13GUGNKG2O4w5j2ugWKcg28icgBBAloX0lvx63luFJaimFsIDgnALUSG2 >> nQ0hP2gDWzXfYeflBxkIYXLZAur4mu/FukkqCq649+LRNep0r/R+2YIZhjLwFCbh >> bxxzxBMg1cWZhs4nzULRf9F/TLhUFVTGm86zS2CnEQSZ5QsoHmN97DRFr5EHPLWu >> 9ZVwQlDHVsyM8OAE8qotwodznk4hocRTEeE36xP4CclJeNXUZ+ssDPyIYICnmod8 >> sGUXEW0GsznRzSCcBmMj4U/PkilStNbK5SjtsEdJ1bs8MHgtmbLQwKBzHl5xkuFD >> qzGoO7XkKr+g7YiIN57G2VMUnbDfTtSo4vYJd2h7fpeEY8oTAlZXpvlK+6QENtVB >> 7vTXGy7LV2qM5g0RXztBrd8VbmDUS1LkQ/TwRTSzw6FEnm9CggWx5dLo5+ZAb2vU >> X4tRr5AgX1jiKEK1Aummygm5GKcSKUYmkKt4xiFSSf1Jnm5U5lWjTJWOB7yR37w5 >> NobSnud+nBYKNCXzHkrN >> =H2OB >> -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- >> If you reply to this message it will be delivered to the original sender >> only. If your reply would benefit others on the list and your message is >> related to GW Micro, then please consider sending your message to >> [email protected] so the entire list will receive it. >> >> GW-Info messages are archived at http://www.gwmicro.com/gwinfo. You can >> manage your list subscription at http://www.gwmicro.com/listserv. >> If you reply to this message it will be delivered to the original sender only. If your reply would benefit others on the list and your message is related to GW Micro, then please consider sending your message to [email protected] so the entire list will receive it. GW-Info messages are archived at http://www.gwmicro.com/gwinfo. You can manage your list subscription at http://www.gwmicro.com/listserv. If you reply to this message it will be delivered to the original sender only. If your reply would benefit others on the list and your message is related to GW Micro, then please consider sending your message to [email protected] so the entire list will receive it. GW-Info messages are archived at http://www.gwmicro.com/gwinfo. You can manage your list subscription at http://www.gwmicro.com/listserv.
