As Aaron said though, Microsoft's record is spotty at best; their Visual Foxpro (no longer sold I believe) was a very complex development environment, so it cost a lot, has been around for about 20 years, and they never took the time to make it accessible! :(
Chip > -----Original Message----- > From: martin webster [mailto:webstermar...@yahoo.com] > Sent: Friday, August 10, 2012 2:29 AM > To: gw-scripting@gwmicro.com > Subject: Re: scripting Adobe AIR applications > > Hi all and Aaron, > I know what your saying there, to have all those MSAA propertys methods > and events at your finger tips and to find they are not implemented is quite > francly annoying particularly when working on menu/ribbon structures, but > at least microsoft try to use their own programming interface. The amount > of programmers whom put MSAA in to a relativly simple structure and > ignore the bigger picture wines me up. Classic example, meta products > Offline explorer Pro, I can get all most anything I want from the Treeview > structure where the download templates are displayed where it's not really > needed using MSAA, But absolutely nothing from the ribbon/menu > structure where it's needed, as you quite rightly said, "The MSAA tree is all > most empty", and the two or three events that do exist are not useful. You > have no > chance usually in a £30 application of ever seeing MSAA being > implemented at all. Even in expensive applications, where people should > know better I find MSAA is just not there, and adobe are the worst, take > their flash updater, we are still getting buttons that vaugely speak and > token gestures to make an installer talk, rubbish. they just don't care or > theyare crap programmers. s. Sorry people if this is sounding like a rant, it's > something I feel very strongly about. > Warm regards. > Martin Webster. > I.T. team leader for KVIN. > > > --- On Thu, 8/9/12, Aaron Smith <aa...@gwmicro.com> wrote: > > From: Aaron Smith <aa...@gwmicro.com> > Subject: Re: scripting Adobe AIR applications > To: gw-scripting@gwmicro.com > Date: Thursday, August 9, 2012, 1:01 PM > > > > > > > > Hi, Martin. > > > > Even Microsoft isn't without blame. There lots of places where they > don't get UIA/MSAA right. The technology to create accessible > applications exists, even in Adobe AIR. Unfortunately, those > accessibility options are either not something that gets enabled by > default, or are completely overlooked by developers. It's very > frustrating to know that the solutions exist to these kinds of > problems, but to not be able to do anything about it. > > > > Aaron > > > > On 8/9/2012 3:20 AM, martin webster > wrote: > > > > > > > Hi all, > > "Unfortunately not. The UIA tree is all but empty in the > application window. > > This is a very poorly written interface." > > You do surprise me! Aaron! smile. In my limited experience > with MSAA Microsoft seem to be the only people whom can > implement MSAA correctly. > > Warm regards. > > Martin Webster. > > I.T. team leader for KVIN. > > > > > > --- On Wed, 8/8/12, Cory Samaha <csama...@aim.com> > wrote: > > > > From: Cory Samaha <csama...@aim.com> > > Subject: RE: scripting Adobe AIR applications > > To: gw-scripting@gwmicro.com > > Date: Wednesday, August 8, 2012, 9:06 PM > > > > Ah *sigh*. Thanks a lot though. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Aaron Smith [mailto:aa...@gwmicro.com] > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2012 12:55 PM > > To: gw-scripting@gwmicro.com > > Subject: Re: scripting Adobe AIR applications > > > > Unfortunately not. The UIA tree is all but empty in > the application window. > > This is a very poorly written interface. > > > > Aaron > > > > On 8/8/2012 12:23 PM, Cory Samaha wrote: > > > Aaron, > > > > > > Thanks for checking into it anyway. Do you > think, like Doug > > > mentioned, that this could be scriptable if we > could manipulate UIA > > through WE scripting? > > > Or, is this amazon program a lost cause? > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Aaron Smith [mailto:aa...@gwmicro.com] > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2012 8:01 AM > > > To: gw-scripting@gwmicro.com > > > Subject: Re: scripting Adobe AIR applications > > > > > > That's a bummer. Nice use of the scripting tools, > though. > > > > > > Aaron > > > > > > On 8/7/2012 5:15 PM, Cory Samaha wrote: > > >> Yeah, I was able to get it installed using > immed actually. I just > > >> found the accessible object which needed to > be activated and did > > >> DoDefaultAction on it. But once it is > installed, I just don't see > > >> any MSAA event information coming through, > nor do I see any > > >> accessible objects > > > to work with either. > > >> -----Original Message----- > > >> From: Aaron Smith [mailto:aa...@gwmicro.com] > > >> Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2012 5:05 PM > > >> To: gw-scripting@gwmicro.com > > >> Subject: Re: scripting Adobe AIR applications > > >> > > >> The UIA to MSAA bridge makes the Adobe AIR > installer scriptable. In > > >> fact, Window-Eyes would just read it out of > the box were we more open > > >> to who we support MSAA in. I don't know about > the rest of the Amazon > > >> program. I do see that there's very little > keyboard support to begin > > >> with, even without a screen reader involved. > > >> > > >> Aaron > > >> > > >> On 8/7/2012 4:24 PM, Doug Lee wrote: > > >>> My understanding is that AIR's > accessibility is UIA-based, and the > > >>> MSAA support provided for UIA controls is > both limited and somewhat > > >>> non-standard in my experience, which > means screen readers that rely > > >>> only on MSAA will struggle in these > cases. I don't remember if WE > > >>> includes any direct UIA access features > for scripters, though I'm > > >>> sure there are those on this list with > very concrete answers to that > > >>> question. > > >>> > > >>> On Tue, Aug 07, 2012 at 03:36:13PM -0400, > Cory Samaha wrote: > > >>> It seems to be short on MSAA events (I > tried running WeEvent). Of > > >>> course, I could be missing something. > The direct URL for the > > >>> importer > > > is: > > >>> https://images-na.ssl-images- > amazon.com/images/G/01/digital/music/up > > >>> l o ader/a > > >>> > pp/win/AmazonMusicImporterInstaller-2.0.0._V392838521_.exe > > >>> > > >>> I'm not sure if that URL is session > specific; I don't think it is. > > >>> If that doesn't work, go to > > >>> https://www.amazon.com/gp/dmusic/mp3/player > > >>> and login to amazon. Once there, click > import music. When you > > >>> click import music, there is an in page > dialog which comes up > > >>> allowing you to download the importer, > but WE does not read this > > >>> automatically. A lot of mouse nav action > has to be done to even get > > >>> this thing downloaded. The only way I > was able to get the direct > > >>> URL to the importer which I gave above is > because I reviewed the > > >>> source of this > > > page. > > >>> Cory > > >>> > > >>> -----Original Message----- > > >>> From: Aaron Smith [mailto:aa...@gwmicro.com] > > >>> Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2012 2:48 PM > > >>> To: gw-scripting@gwmicro.com > > >>> Subject: Re: scripting Adobe AIR > applications > > >>> > > >>> There may be some MSAA event/window > information you could use. Where > > >>> does one find this program? > > >>> > > >>> Aaron > > >>> > > >>> On 8/7/2012 2:15 PM, Cory Samaha wrote: > > >>>> Hi all, > > >>>> > > >>>> As much as I don't care for some of > the recent products from adobe, > > >>>> there are some programs which would > be nice to have access to which > > >>>> use the Adobe AIR runtime. One that > recently comes to mind is the > > >>>> Amazon music importer, which is > similar to iTunes music match I > > >>>> believe in the sense that it searches > your computer and will match > > >>>> music files on your hard drive with > music from the Amazon mp3 catalog. > > >>>> > > >>>> Anyway, I was wondering if Adobe AIR > has an accessible framework of > > >>>> any kind? I was thinking maybe it > would be possible to get some of > > >>>> the programs to speak with WE, > similar to the WE4Java project. I > > >>>> don't know much about the Adobe AIR > API, so before I waste time, I > > >>>> was wondering if anyone else has > already explored this area before. > > >>>> > > >>>> If I am not mistaken, other screen > readers such as NVDA tout > > >>>> support for Adobe AIR. I loaded the > above mentioned amazon music > > >>>> importer with NVDA and couldn't get > anything to speak. I'm not > > >>>> sure if that's a problem with AIR or > poor design on Amazon's part. > > >>>> If a project could be done to get WE > to work with AIR though, that > > >>>> would be > > > cool. > > >>>> Any > > >>> thoughts? > > >>>> Thanks, > > >>>> Cory > > >>> -- > > >>> Aaron Smith > > >>> Web Development * App Development * > Product Support Specialist GW > > >>> Micro, Inc. * 725 Airport North Office > Park, Fort Wayne, IN 46825 > > >>> 260-489-3671 * gwmicro.com > > >>> > > >>> To insure that you receive proper > support, please include all past > > >>> correspondence (where applicable), and > any relevant information > > >>> pertinent to your situation when > submitting a problem report to the > > >>> GW Micro Technical Support Team. > > >>> > > >>> > > >> -- > > >> Aaron Smith > > >> Web Development * App Development * Product > Support Specialist GW > > >> Micro, Inc. * 725 Airport North Office Park, > Fort Wayne, IN 46825 > > >> 260-489-3671 * gwmicro.com > > >> > > >> To insure that you receive proper support, > please include all past > > >> correspondence (where applicable), and any > relevant information > > >> pertinent to your situation when submitting a > problem report to the > > >> GW Micro Technical Support Team. > > >> > > > -- > > > Aaron Smith > > > Web Development * App Development * Product > Support Specialist GW > > > Micro, Inc. * 725 Airport North Office Park, Fort > Wayne, IN 46825 > > > 260-489-3671 * gwmicro.com > > > > > > To insure that you receive proper support, please > include all past > > > correspondence (where applicable), and any > relevant information > > > pertinent to your situation when submitting a > problem report to the GW > > > Micro Technical Support Team. > > > > > > > -- > > Aaron Smith > > Web Development * App Development * Product Support > Specialist GW Micro, > > Inc. * 725 Airport North Office Park, Fort Wayne, IN > 46825 > > 260-489-3671 * gwmicro.com > > > > To insure that you receive proper support, please > include all past > > correspondence (where applicable), and any relevant > information pertinent to > > your situation when submitting a problem report to the > GW Micro Technical > > Support Team. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > Aaron Smith > Web Development * App Development * Product Support Specialist > GW Micro, Inc. * 725 Airport North Office Park, Fort Wayne, IN 46825 > 260-489-3671 * gwmicro.com > > To insure that you receive proper support, please include all past > correspondence (where applicable), and any relevant information > pertinent to your situation when submitting a problem report to the GW > Micro Technical Support Team. >
