Good day to you, Egor! What do you say about the getting started doc? Thank you, Nadya Morozova -----Original Message----- From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 8:55 AM To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is outdated
On the 0x21D day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote: > Egor, > I generally like the idea of improving navigation over the site - > there's never too much of that. However, I am not sure whether we need > yet another separate page for introductory/guidance info. I hope the > starting page + the generic pages we have are mostly fine. However, > adding a link here and there to lead site visitors. > > Getting started could be a more specific project-oriented page. There, > you can tell people to go <link>download</link>, <link>build</link> the > code. After which, they can start using it just as any other > <link>RI-compatible</link> jdk. With the exceptions, see our > <link>wiki</link> pages. > To use the vm, readers might need to use the following options... > If they want to read more on our VM, they can visit the > <link>component</link> page. If no website page contains an answer - > they can read <link>wiki faqa</link>. > .. or something like that :) Nadya, I really appreciate our efforts :) But this morning I woke up and looked the site structure with the eye of a beginner. And could not find any obvius flaws in the main structure. Left-side collection of links is in a very good shape, good for beginner-level navigation and contains almost all links you listed here. This was a really refreshing morning :) I'll ask some guys who are new to the project, how they feel about the site. And will report back, if I find something. Refreshing morning is over, now back to work.. > Thank you, > Nadya Morozova > > -----Original Message----- > From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko > Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2006 5:33 PM > To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org > Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is > outdated > > On the 0x21C day of Apache Harmony Pavel Ozhdikhin wrote: > > On 11/9/06, Morozova, Nadezhda <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > Egor, > > > +1 for > > > Just idea: "Getting Started" may contain a collection of links to > the > > > main website and other resources with short descriptions ("Site Map" > > > or something) so that people are comfortable floating around in the > web. > > > > > > > > We already have one page having links to the resources about DRLVM: > > http://incubator.apache.org/harmony/subcomponents/drlvm/index.html > > Why do you think we need another one? > > because it is only DRLVM. > I think of something like "site map", a collection of links. Short > descriptions to some basic ones. > > > > > +1 for > > > * preparing the "Commonly Used Options for DRLVM" (omitting the word > > > "supported" intentionally) > > > Question on this one: will the page contain vm-only options? What > about > > > JIT, GC, other? I'd have them all in one place, but we have separate > > > docs for EM/jit stuff. What do you say? > > > > > > I think we can describe basic options for every component there. Only > those > > that might be interesting for any user. The place for other options is > in > > the run-time help or Developer's Guide for a component. > > I thought of "most commonly used" options. They can possibly be > grouped by components, but not necessary. I would group them by > use-cases. BTW, "any user" is not an obvious substance for me. > > So, the list is not obvious, we need to work it out. > > I see it like HOWTOs. For example: > "-Xem:jet <- use only baseline JIT compiler" > "-Xem:opt <- use only optimising JIT compiler" > "-Xtrace:em <- print method compilation events" > > The 'big' question is: "does 'any user' need to know about JITs > switching?". I say YES, it helps users to investigate problems, which > helps us, developers, to react on users' input faster. > > Other options? I can enlist the set of most commonly used by me. If > many of us put their lists here, we can sum them up quickly and make > a good (really useful) list of popular options. How about that? > > BTW, the list should not be too big. 25 options is a kind of limit > > > Thanks, > > Pavel > > > > Thank you, > > > Nadya Morozova > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko > > > Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2006 5:51 AM > > > To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org > > > Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is > > > outdated > > > > > > On the 0x21B day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote: > > > > All, > > > > I'd like to share everyone's grief at the sight of outdated > Getting > > > > Started document. However, I'd not hurry to eliminate the page as > > > such. > > > > We might reconsider some of its contents, change structure, and > update > > > > individual bits, but please think carefully before removing the > page. > > > > > > > > I think Getting Started (as the title shows) is aimed to help a > newbie > > > > work with our vm. I know that many primarily interested in other > > > things > > > > - conformance, architecture, internal specifics. However, we > should > > > also > > > > think how the vm is used. AFAIK, Getting started is now the *only* > doc > > > > that tries to show how to use our vm. You tell people how to > download > > > > and build, but almost nothing about how to run and configure (with > the > > > > exception of EM/JIT). > > > > > > > > My suggestion would be to think of what you want to tell people > about > > > > usage - with or without eclipse specifics. And store this info on > the > > > > page. I know it is hard - and I offer my help and support in this > > > > burdensome initiative. Any thoughts? i might be inobjective and > > > > emotional :) > > > > > > Nadya, > > > > > > I believe, almost everyone coming across Harmony knows how to use > > > J5SE. We are striving for this compatibility, and we are happy that > > > all DRLVM-specific pecularities are gone. > > > > > > So, I vote for: > > > * removing the "Getting Started" (also because of irritating windows > > > screenshots:) > > > * preparing the "Commonly Used Options for DRLVM" (omitting the word > > > "supported" intentionally) > > > > > > Just idea: "Getting Started" may contain a collection of links to > the > > > main website and other resources with short descriptions ("Site Map" > > > or something) so that people are comfortable floating around in the > web. > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Mikhail Fursov [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 6:03 PM > > > > To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org > > > > Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" > is > > > > outdated > > > > > > > > It's not a hard to write a documenation once, it's hard to support > it > > > :) > > > > More problems: > > > > 1) -Xem options are obsolete. > > > > 2) -Xjit options are also obsolete. > > > > 3) Do we really need this page today? AFAIU users expect Harmony > VM is > > > > able > > > > to run the same apps as RI.. > > > > ? > > > > > > > > On 11/8/06, Pavel Ozhdikhin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hello all, > > > > > I've read through the "Getting Started with > > > > > DRL< > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://incubator.apache.org/harmony/subcomponents/drlvm/getting_started. > > > > html > > > > > >" > > > > > document on the Harmony web and found it completely outdated, > for > > > > example: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - the term DRL is used instead of DRLVM > > > > > - eclipse.bat and eclipse.sh are obsolete - we don't need > them > > > > anymore > > > > > to run Eclipse. It can be started with DRLVM the same way as > with > > > > any > > > > > other > > > > > VM. > > > > > - We don't need to set PATH and LD_LIBRARY_PATH anymore, at > least > > > > on > > > > > Windows/MSVC > > > > > - ij was renamed to java > > > > > > > > > > We took a big step to unification with other Java VMs and now > > > > > we don't need anything specific to run Eclipse, for example. > After > > > > > removing > > > > > all irrelevant info the document would contain only the list of > > > > > command-line > > > > > options. I think we can move this list to a separate document > (Wiki, > > > > > Developer's Guide?) and remove the "Getting Started" itself. > > > > > > > > > > Any opinions? > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > Pavel > > > > > < > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://incubator.apache.org/harmony/subcomponents/drlvm/getting_started. > > > > html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Mikhail Fursov > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Egor Pasko > > > > > -- > Egor Pasko > -- Egor Pasko
