sdfsfsfds > From: lord.matt.hoff...@gmail.com > Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 09:32:08 -0700 > To: hlcoders@list.valvesoftware.com > Subject: Re: [hlcoders] Game Content > > Agreed. I went looking for it yesterday, never found it. Probably in the GCF > as it pops up when you first install the SDK. > > On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 9:29 AM, Jonas 'Sortie' Termansen <hlcod...@maxsi.dk >> wrote: > >> I would, but I couldn't find a copy of it. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Tom Leighton" <tomrleigh...@googlemail.com> >> To: "Discussion of Half-Life Programming" <hlcoders@list.valvesoftware.com >>> >> Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 5:57 PM >> Subject: Re: [hlcoders] Game Content >> >> >>> Have you read the agreement that accompanies the SDK? >>> >>> Jonas 'Sortie' Termansen wrote: >>>> I just read the Steam Subscriber Agreement ( >>>> http://store.steampowered.com/subscriber_agreement/ ) and it said >> nothing >>>> about .GCF files or using unmounted content. However, it defines "Steam >>>> Software" as "software and other content and updates", and restricts you >>>> from >>>> >>>> "with regard to the SDK, you may not, in whole or in part, copy, >>>> photocopy, >>>> reproduce, translate, reverse engineer, derive source code, modify, >>>> disassemble, decompile, create derivative works based on, or remove any >>>> proprietary notices or labels from the Steam Software or any software >>>> accessed via Steam" >>>> >>>> Other agreements with Valve might apply, which I have forgotten about, >> or >>>> didn't read because they shouldn't cover copyright, such as the Steam >>>> Online >>>> Conduct ruleset, or the Valve Privacy Policy. >>>> >>>> The definition of Steam Software is unclear, and doesn't specify whether >>>> it >>>> includes the specific game content or not, but if it doesn't, the game >>>> content is fully covered by US Copyright Laws. Again, thus it could >>>> qualify >>>> as Fair Use (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use for more >>>> information) >>>> because the works are non-comerical, only uses a bit of Valve's work >> CS:S >>>> as >>>> a whole, (educational purposes can apply to GuildHall mods for >> instance), >>>> and that a mod using a CS:S model will not harm or limit Valve's >>>> marketing >>>> or sales. >>>> >>>> Again, I have seen quite a few mods that utilizes content extracted from >>>> the >>>> .gcf files, such as TF2 or CS:S content, but I am yet to hear Valve >>>> complain >>>> about such usage. Note that Valve Employees probably will not respond to >>>> any >>>> questions regarding this, as they are not allowed to act officially for >>>> Valve without permission. If you really care, do mail the copyright >>>> department of Valve and ask. Of course, using a lot of CS:S content >> (such >>>> as >>>> binaries and maps) is not fair use, as it will be an illegal copy of the >>>> game (perhaps even stand-alone.) >>>> >>>> In conclusion, the Steam Subscriber Agreement doesn't directly prohibit >>>> you >>>> from extract and shipping content from the .GCF files, and if you do it >>>> carefully, it could count as Fair Use, and people on this list states >>>> that >>>> Valve doesn't care (which doesn't make it legal). I don't recommend >> doing >>>> so >>>> though, because it's questionably legal, but it's your decision. >>>> >>>> - Sortie >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Olly" <oli...@gmail.com> >>>> To: "Discussion of Half-Life Programming" >>>> <hlcoders@list.valvesoftware.com> >>>> Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 3:58 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [hlcoders] Game Content >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> If its in the EULA (which I think it is) that says that you cannot use >>>>> unmounted content. Then you just shouldn't unless you have consent from >>>>> Valve. >>>>> Downloading music is illigal, and that's just copying data. I also >>>>> wouldn't >>>>> make any money from doing so. >>>>> >>>>> Emailing them would have been a much easier/accurate way to get an >>>>> answer. >>>>> >>>>> 2009/5/14 Saul Rennison <saul.renni...@gmail.com> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> If it is actually illegal Valve will confront you and politely ask you >>>>>> to >>>>>> remove the copyrighted content, then when you do everything's OK. No >>>>>> trouble! >>>>>> >>>>>> 2009/5/14 Jonas 'Sortie' Termansen <hlcod...@maxsi.dk> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Technically, you are not stealing from Valve by making a copy of >> their >>>>>>> works, if they don't lose anything, which the clause that you only >> use >>>>>>> a >>>>>>> small portion of their content includes, because the content cannot >>>>>>> substitute CS:S, and then it won't affect their sales, thus it can >>>>>>> >>>>>> quality >>>>>> >>>>>>> as Fair Use under the US Copyright laws. But it's still untested in >>>>>>> >>>>>> court, >>>>>> >>>>>>> and will vary on a case basis, and I am not an US copyright expert. >>>>>>> The >>>>>>> same >>>>>>> argument goes for editing the content. Again, note that I don't >>>>>>> recommend >>>>>>> doing this, but if it's legal due to Fair Use, and you only use small >>>>>>> amounts of content, it will be much faster for the mod to load the >>>>>>> >>>>>> content >>>>>> >>>>>>> from its own folder, instead of adding another search path, which >>>>>>> >>>>>> increases >>>>>> >>>>>>> loadtimes. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Oh and be careful when mounting .GCFs from code and not the >>>>>>> gameinfo.txt, >>>>>>> >>>>>> I >>>>>> >>>>>>> had some experience that some people couldn't launch the mod >>>>>>> >>>>>> successfully, >>>>>> >>>>>>> even if they had the .GCF I was mounting. Might be fixed though, but >>>>>>> >>>>>> still. >>>>>> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: "Julian Moschüring" <ar...@gmx.com> >>>>>>> To: "Discussion of Half-Life Programming" < >>>>>>> >>>>>> hlcoders@list.valvesoftware.com >>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 2:57 PM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [hlcoders] Game Content >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> "-You only included small amounts of Valve's copyrighted works" >>>>>>>> Nice reasoning, so if I go into a shop and only steal eg a part of a >>>>>>>> computer thats okay? :-) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I think you should mount the CS:S content because you have to make >>>>>>>> sure >>>>>>>> the users who use your mod own the right to have the models you >>>>>>>> >>>>>> provide. >>>>>> >>>>>>>> Legally you are not even allowed to ship the modified model. To do >> it >>>>>>>> totally right you would have to extract the gcf during install and >>>>>>>> >>>>>> modify >>>>>> >>>>>>>> the original model... but, as Jonas said, I don't think valve will >>>>>>>> complain about this. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Jonas 'Sortie' Termansen schrieb: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> My personal expierence is that you can use CS:S Content in your >> mod. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>> The >>>>>> >>>>>>>>> 100% legal way is to mount CS:S content but that requires CS:S to >> be >>>>>>>>> installed and owned by everyone who own your mod. Then if you >> modify >>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>> few >>>>>>>>> models, you can simply make some replacements in your own mod >> folder >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> that >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> will override the CS:S content. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> If you want a more questionable method that allows everyone to play >>>>>>>>> >>>>>> your >>>>>> >>>>>>>>> mod >>>>>>>>> (and faster because you don't have to mount another .gcf file or >>>>>>>>> two), >>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>> can simply extract the few models you wish to edit and their >>>>>>>>> >>>>>> materials, >>>>>> >>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>> put them in your mod's folder. This way you don't depend on any >>>>>>>>> extra >>>>>>>>> .gcf >>>>>>>>> files or that people have CS:S installed. This should work fine for >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> small >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> amounts of content. While untested in court, it could qualify for >>>>>>>>> Fair >>>>>>>>> Use >>>>>>>>> because: >>>>>>>>> - You only included small amounts of Valve's copyrighted works >>>>>>>>> - The content required at least one of Valve's products >>>>>>>>> - The content used doesn't include the whole CS:S and doesn't limit >>>>>>>>> Valve's >>>>>>>>> sales, because the content isn't CS:S >>>>>>>>> - You do not earn any money from their works >>>>>>>>> - (You edited their works to some degree) >>>>>>>>> - (I have never heard of Valve having any complaints about this, as >>>>>>>>> >>>>>> long >>>>>> >>>>>>>>> as >>>>>>>>> the above is true, despite the EULA probably saying otherwise) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Again, whether it's legal or advised to extract and ship the >>>>>>>>> contents >>>>>>>>> >>>>>> of >>>>>> >>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>> GCF file, the perfectly safe but annoying way of doing it is >>>>>>>>> mounting >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> CSS GCF file, but the way you do it is up to you. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>> From: "Yaakov Smith" <m4ngr...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>> To: "'Discussion of Half-Life Programming'" >>>>>>>>> <hlcoders@list.valvesoftware.com> >>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 12:09 PM >>>>>>>>> Subject: [hlcoders] Game Content >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Example: I want to mess with CS:S models and include modifications >>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> said models in my mod. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Could I legally do that, but mount the CS:S content to cover the >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> legal >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> aspect? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> archives, >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> please visit: >>>>>>>>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >>>>>>>>> archives, >>>>>>>>> please visit: >>>>>>>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >>>>>>>> archives, >>>>>>>> please visit: >>>>>>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >> archives, >>>>>>> please visit: >>>>>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>> - Saul. >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >>>>>> please visit: >>>>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Sent from Olly's SEGA Game Gear >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >>>>> please visit: >>>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >>>> please visit: >>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders >>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >>> please visit: >>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders >>> >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >> please visit: >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders >> >> > _______________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please > visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders >
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