I am tired of fighting Valve updates. When the next release breaks Mani I am done until SourceMod works.
Maybe everyone should check out SourceMod's tracker. I am sure it is not 100% correct, but they show out of 28,736 servers 18,267 of them are running Mani. Since the next update is going to break Mani and make it difficult for him to continue he has most likely quit. I for one have no interest in running a server without that sort of functionality. http://www.sourcemod.net/stats.php On 5/24/07 9:45 AM, "Chris Barnett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > FACT A: Most servers use 3rd party plugins. Always have done, always will. > > FACT B: Most server operators including myself, are NOT asking Valve to > support 3rd party plugins, but to recognise the practical ramifications of > fact A and how Steam updates without any kind of Betas cause immense > headaches. It's not about support. It's about having a proper beta > pre-release cycle set in stone so that the plugin operators can patch in > advance and the rest of us can test if we so desire. > > FACT C: No matter what official admin tools Valve releases, the server > operators are not going to implement them, if they don't have the features > they seek. It's no use you saying that you think kick and ban is too much > along with just about everything else, if most of the server ops disagree. > You can keep repeating your views about what server admins need till the > cows come home. At the end of the day, they listen to the people who cough > up the cash to keep their servers running. So if those people want to be > able to bet, vote on maps, kick ban, whatever then that's what they will get > so long as there is a plugin / script that works. Don't take this the wrong > way, but I don't have the features that I want on my server running. I have > the features that my community votes for and pays for. If I had my own way, > I wouldn't have betting on my server, but that's what my crowd really want, > so that's what they get. > > > What's getting on my skin, is that out there, there are a few vocal people > who keep shouting "But we only need XYZ to admin the server and anyone who > runs these plugins - well that's their problem, Valve shouldn't waste their > time on these people" > > Great. Bully for you. You run vanilla servers and that's what you're players > want. But the rest of don't have vanilla servers - and that is a lot of us. > It's not like the server operators just insist on running this stuff, it's > what the players in their communities want. > > The bottom line is that most servers run these plugins and we'll never get > away from that. > > If Valve put a pre-release beta in place, 1 hour of their time, could save > thousands of man hours that the server operators have to waste. > > Cheers. > > Chris. > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Munky Judder > Sent: 24 May 2007 09:40 > To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com > Subject: RE: [hlds] Blocking Client Commands > > I dont think its realistic for Valve to try and support every type of script > or plugin...I meant just concentrate on the admin side of things. Kick and > Ban are far too excessive for the majority of servers and rcon is very user > unfriendly. It quite reasonable to suggest a Valve Admin plugin as this is a > commercially viable idea if its payed for by server operators. You also > wouldnt have 3000 PO'ed admins everytime there was a patch, spamming up > their emails or bitching on their forums Valve just broke something if its > official. > > TBH though I think the days of CS:S are numbered if players opinions are > being ignored.....but what do I know :) > > >> From: "Chris Barnett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> Reply-To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com >> To: <hlds@list.valvesoftware.com> >> Subject: RE: [hlds] Blocking Client Commands >> Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 03:42:03 +0100 >> >> But they won't do it and even if they did. It would be a nightmare. What >> features go into the standard stock admin GUI then? >> >> Because if a requested feature doesn't have an obvious effect on the >> average >> desperately in need of Ritalin, server-hopping 13 year old, your voice will >> be drowned out and out gunned by the masses, most of whom will never admin >> a >> proper public standalone server. >> >> No disrespect to Valve, but when they find out by reading some srcds forum >> that a feature would be real cool it will get bottom priority below >> everything else. In the end, like always, it will be the independent plugin >> makers that knock out the features. >> >> Can you seriously see Valve ever getting around to making a plugin that has >> all of the features of Mani, Beetles and Matties plugins? Not to mention >> all >> the others out there made for sourcemod? >> >> And even if they made something one quarter as good. *SOME* of those >> people, >> who love vanilla servers would then spend most of their time convincing >> Valve that they should do a better job of deliberately breaking 3rd party >> plugins AND that beta's are a waste of time. >> >> Now consider the other option - one that is actually possible for Valve to >> do. >> >> Run a beta for every SRCDS update. That alone, would solve most of my >> problems. I could actually invest time into my server, serious time, >> without >> worrying that everything I'm going to build it on, is someday going to be >> ruined by an update. >> >> I'm not asking for endless consultations between Valve and the community. >> I'm asking for Valve to give us 2 weeks notice on all updates. >> >> EG. "Today is the 20th of May. This is what we are sending out on the 3rd >> of >> June. You have two weeks to test and patch against it. Have fun boys and >> girls". >> >> That simple. If they want to take feedback, they can, but I couldn't give >> two monkeys whether they do or don't. Because quite frankly no matter what >> Valve does, the plugin operators can patch to make sure their stuff still >> works and I can live a little longer in the knowledge that man months of >> work isn't going to go down the toilet, with me begging the plugin >> operators >> to patch within hours rather than days. >> >> Anyone who doesn't care, doesn't run a freakin server loaded up with >> plugins >> that have a lot of time invested in them. >> >> >> >> Cheers. >> Chris. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Scumbucket >> Sent: 20 May 2007 03:04 >> To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com >> Subject: Re: [hlds] Blocking Client Commands >> >> Well I say if Valve wants to make a server admin tool and other plugins so >> we can admin our servers while at the same collect all the important data >> like hits to the various parts of the body, then I am all for it. >> >> But they don't so we have to use these 3rd party plugins in order to please >> the players. The players want all the bells and whistles that just do not >> come with a stock DODS Server. >> >> It would make my job easier if I did not have to add so many plugins. >> >> Just my two cents worth! >> >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Chris Barnett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> To: <hlds@list.valvesoftware.com> >> Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2007 11:41 AM >> Subject: RE: [hlds] Blocking Client Commands >> >> >>> >>> You can make all the suggestions you want. It's my opinion that most >>> server >>> admins want to keep their third party plugins working, rather than Valve >>> push out updates overnight that break them. >>> >>> There is no official links I would ever be able to muster up, that >> proves >>> what features want most. >>> >>> But hey, it's a good job it's just a Valve mailing list and not the UN >>> security council. >>> >>> What do you want me to prove next? That server admins want to keep their >>> servers up and running? >>> >>> Any server admin that doesn't want a beat program, quite simply doesn't >>> know >>> he wants it yet. Hang around for another few years of broken plugins and >>> servers overnight and believe me, all you want is a freakin beta >> program. >>> If >>> by that stage you happen to be in that small percentage that don't, it's >>> only because you run little or no plugins, which ain't exactly the norm >>> for >>> a server operator. >>> >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> Chris. >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Regime >>> Sent: 19 May 2007 19:33 >>> To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com >>> Subject: Re: [hlds] Blocking Client Commands >>> >>> If you are going to speak for 'us server admins' and such I think it >>> would be a good idea to provide some sources upon which you base your >>> statements. If you can not, I suggest you speak for yourself, or not at >>> all. >>> --- >>> Regime >>> http://www.livebythegun.com/ >>> >>> >>> Chris Barnett wrote: >>>> They was going to. The wiki pages for it still exist, but it looks like >>> the >>>> project was abandoned. Besides, no one really wants Valve to get >> involved >>> in >>>> a server admin tool because 3rd party developers are doing a real good >>>> job >>>> with them. >>>> >>>> What a lot of server operators want, is a proper beta program where all >>> new >>>> updates from Valve are run for a set system so everyone, including the >>>> plugin developers can see exactly is what on the horizon. >>>> >>>> Leave Valve to update the actual game functionality, because us server >>>> admins are tired of trying to get ourselves heard over the >> server-hopping >>> 13 >>>> year olds, who think server admins are worse that the police or traffic >>>> wardens.....that's not Valves fault - that's the way it is. That's the >>>> way >>>> the cookie crumbles, that's the way the chips have landed yada yada >> yada. >>>> >>>> Server admins are best off served by the 3rd party plugin developer >>>> community, if only Valve would concede that, the whole thing would >> work, >>> if >>>> they bothered to implement a proper beta system where all new updates >> are >>>> pre-published so that the plugin community can patch their plugins >>>> against >>>> what Valve is releasing. >>>> >>>> If Valve launched an official admin tool. We would be forever sitting >>>> here >>>> begging them for this that and the other and we would be bitching with >>>> the >>>> normal gaming punters for airtime, trying to convince Valve that >> certain >>>> server features are more important than a HDR release of a certain map. >>>> No >>>> thanks. An official beta program is a server admins wet dream come >> true. >>>> >>>> Does Valve still think it's not practical? My C.V is in the post. >>>> >>>> >>>> Cheers. >>>> >>>> Chris. >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >>> please visit: >>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >>> please visit: >>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >> please visit: >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >> please visit: >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > _________________________________________________________________ > Txt a lot? 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