I do agree with you. It's just plain silly that they don't have a proper beta program to test their code or something like it. I know tons of people who'd be more then willing to participate AND give constructive feedback.
Also it's just plain silly that we have to put up an advert every couple of minutes to attend people on the fact that if you get a timeout at map change, you should rejoin the server and that this issue is caused by badly working Steam servers. It's been weeks now we suffer these programs. Even for a 'Best effort SLA' this would be looking very, very poor. Saint K. -----Original Message----- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of SakeFox Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 6:04 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer! it's been basically treated as the norm that it's russian roulette with any update or game release. they keep pushing server files without testing them and we suffer for it. i can't count the number of times after a tf2 update that servers would work because of the server update. Look at the game launches TF2 linux binaries didn't work for hours and L4D windows binaries didn't work for hours. Is the next game just going to have broken binaries for both servers? Is it really that hard to test something before you make it live. This happens all the time and getting more frequent. Karl Weckstrom wrote: > Now THAT is what I consider "Well said". > > > -----Original Message----- > From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Blood Letter > Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 11:50 AM > To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com > Subject: Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer! > > > If Valve completely ignores server operators who provide free servers, without which their games would be useless, they suck. > > If Valve lets long standing bugs, exploits, and security issues go unattended while focusing only on the latest content update + free weekend, they clearly prioritize sales over customers. > > I don't know about Valve's office, but if something goes wrong with a system at my office, even on Christmas day, we respond to it, and come into the office if necessary. If there are fires wreaking havoc with the power grid and people are being evacuated from their homes, we coordinate to make sure our servers are backed up, the backups are offsite, and the servers are safe. > > If someone at Valve wants a break, they can take vacation days. Do they only have 3 guys, and each only does 1 thing? I hope not. Any company worth it's salt knows you need redundancy in your mind share. > > Valve IS ignoring this list, by not replying. They get torn apart because they never respond to important issues, they're always late, and they never, EVER, provide clear and complete answers, let alone any semblance of documentation. > > Even if I were a child, I would still be a paying customer. If you're saying Valve gets a pass because gaming is not a priority in life, then you don't understand a single thing about having a job. If your job is to make games, you do that. If your job is to deliver mail, you do that. Working in a particular job sector does not give you the right to slack off. > > If Valve fixes everything and provides complete and correct documentation, then they get support and sales. Going from an F to an A doesn't change the fact that you still had an F. > > No one is treating Valve like shit. We are simply demanding we get some support, some documentation, and some communication. We get none of those things. Being a customer DOES give you the right to expect a certain level of quality and service from the business you are patronizing. > > If Valve's priorities continue to diverge from what so many of us expect, that's fine. They'll just lose our money and our support. Let's be clear here - server admins are supporting Valve, not the other way around. I'm sorry I can't apply for a job at Valve, I already have a job of my own. I can't be programming for everyone in the world, can I? Regardless, I wouldn't want to work in an office where a complete lack of customer support gets a passing grade. > > Valve's lack of support and communication is indefensible to anyone with even a remote knowledge of programming and software development. > > >> Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 11:12:41 -0500 >> From: richard....@gmail.com >> To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com >> Subject: Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer! >> >> If Valve doesn't do everything we say, they suck. If Valve doesn't fix >> everything now, they suck. If Valve doesn't kiss our asses every second of >> every day, they suck. They don't care, they won't fix this, they refuse to >> fix that. All they want is our money. >> >> You all sound like a broken record. And worse than that, you have no lives >> outside of this thing we have here. Did anyone stop to think that since >> they all busted their asses for who knows how long getting Left 4 Dead out >> the door, while providing updates to TF2 the whole time, that maybe...just >> maybe, they'd want to take a break for a little while during the holidays? >> You know...so they could spend time with their families. >> >> Honestly, since release of TOB, there have been a relentless amount of >> updates to their products. In the time that has passed from TOB until now, >> the only people being neglected were probably most of the families of Valve >> employees. Does anyone feel they deserve a little break? >> >> They're ignoring us? Really? You think so? Does anyone here subscribe to >> HLCoders? A little civility goes a long way. In my opinion, Valve isn't >> ignoring this list, they just don't want to reply. I swear, this list = >> SPUF sometimes. Any two words they say are held against them forever. >> >> I know that a lot of kids subscribe to this list, so it would be difficult >> for a lot of you to understand, but there is such a thing as priorities in >> life. Gaming is not as high on that list once you have a family to take >> care of and a boss to answer to. And you are not the boss of anyone at >> Valve. >> >> Valve knows about the problems, obviously. You all keep saying the same >> things over and over. Give them a break. Just because you didn't have >> anything to do for the past couple of weeks doesn't mean they had to sit >> around and hop on every little problem we have. What happens when updates >> are released to address the current existing issues? Are you going to >> apologize for acting like a bunch of assholes or are you going to feel >> stupid for saying things like, "Valve doesn't care about their games >> anymore"? Wait...I know. 90% of you will say, "Finally." 5% won't be >> happy no matter what. 4% will bring up another issue that Valve is >> ignoring. And 1% will say, "Thank you." >> >> Yes, we paid money for the game. But $50 does not give you the right to >> treat the people trying to help you like shit. Sometimes the problems that >> you claim are easy fixes may not be so easy to fix. And since most of you >> know for a fact that it's an easy fix, there's always j...@valvesoftware.com >> . >> >> Grow up. They are aware of the problems. Like Aaron said, there are your >> priorities and then there are business priorities. Just because the issues >> high on your list may not be high on theirs doesn't mean they're ignoring >> you. But then, it would be stupid of me to assume that most of you would >> understand any of that, especially given your attitudes over the past few >> months. >> >> -Richard Eid >> _______________________________________________ >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds >> > > _________________________________________________________________ > It's the same Hotmail(r). If by "same" you mean up to 70% faster. > http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_broad1_1 22008 > _______________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > _______________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > _______________________________________________ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds _______________________________________________ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
