The problem is the damage was already done, id be stunned if valve reads the list at all now, I know I stopped reading a while ago, im mainly of the list for patches now, however I used to be a massive contributor, so did many others who are now virtually silent , It all changed around the release of CSS, the list suddenly become much larger, and the noise on the list became unbearable and it lost its way.
Saying that back then when a problem like this happened, the list was fall of logs and tcpdumps trying to work out what was happening, rather then just people saying it is happening over and over again followed by chat about how valve owes us something. Kingsley -------------------------------------------------- From: "Karl Weckstrom" <k...@weckstrom.com> Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 8:27 AM To: "Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list" <hlds@list.valvesoftware.com> Subject: Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer! --- they don'toweyouanything. > Understood, Kingsley. > > And the people suffering from this bug aren't asking for help at this > point. We're BEGGING for it. We want to know when this problem will be > fixed as it is a major problem that's causing us grief (and a lot more > work) - and this is the most reasonable place for this problem to be > discussed. > > To those of you who wish it would "just stop", you're entitled to wish > that - just as I am entitled to wish for it to continue in hopes that > Valve will speak up about this. We are desperate for action on this bug, > and we are completely within reason to do so. > > -k > > > -----Original Message----- > From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com > [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Kingsley Foreman > Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 4:41 PM > To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list > Subject: Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer! --- they don't > owe you anything. > > It was a generalization, ive been on this list a long time and seen many > people yell boycott. > > and to Timothy > If someone kept calling me to tell me how much I suck i would stop > answering > the phone wouldn't you? > > and to Karl this mail list was a support list for the windows version of > hlds that is it, so unless you are offering help, asking for help, > reporting > bugs, or getting info about a patch you prob shouldn't be talking. That is > how it was for many many years. > > Id be a happy man if everyone who went off topic were removed from the > list. > > Saying that because I don't really want to prolong this topic i won't > respond again, I only wanted to clear up what Sakefox said. > > Kingsley > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "SakeFox" <sake...@kingdomsend.com> > Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 7:51 AM > To: "Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list" > <hlds@list.valvesoftware.com> > Subject: Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer! --- they don't > owe > you anything. > >> Before you make your post on a subject, please read what was posted and >> not just assume you read it all. There was never anyone screaming about >> a boycott or alike. It sounds like your rant is more about other peoples >> issues then the one that this topic was about. >> >> Kingsley Foreman wrote: >>> I've stayed quiet on this one but seriously i'm sick of the spam. If >>> you >>> want to whine about Valve go create your own mail list and feel free to >>> do >>> it all you want. >>> >>> I know that many of you have been hosting servers for a long time, I >>> also >>> know many of you haven't im also assuming some people on this list >>> aren't >>> hosters at all. However little support from games companies from isn't >>> something new, it has been going on size the first dedicated server was >>> released. Valve traditionally are far far far better then most if not >>> all >>> companies on releasing patches and fixes. Anyone here heard of the >>> Battlefield series of games? >>> >>> However this isn't the problem here, have any of you actually wondered >>> if >>> it >>> is actually us as a whole who have caused the problem of valve "not >>> listening". Ive been on this mail list for many many years, way before >>> steam >>> was released, back when CS was really the only game it talked about. The >>> list was 1000x better then it is now. If there was a post it was us or >>> someone helping someone else or a release. No crying that Valve don't >>> love >>> us, It was even before GSPs went on huge rants because a patch didn't do >>> they wanted and it was costing them money. >>> >>> Back then Valve responded to most if not all problems. Why because when >>> they >>> did everyone said thank you and didn't scream boycott and cry foul. >>> People >>> get over it. Valve are a business, Valve of course want sales, they same >>> way >>> you do. We aren't valves customers if anything most of you are using >>> something Valve give out for free to make money. >>> >>> And on a final note, i love people who scream boycott, why? because when >>> you >>> do it mean more player for us when when we ignore it. >>> >>> I'm actually more annoyed at the people on the list who have changed it >>> into >>> what it is today rather then a useful list like it used to be. I don't >>> care >>> about your business, what upsets you at night, how the world is out to >>> get >>> you, or your dick size. I care about patches and fixes with people >>> willing >>> to contribute to make something better, not whinge about why it isn't. >>> So >>> for the people working out bugs, making mods, and generally helping >>> others, >>> I salute you. For the rest maybe you should start a blog. >>> >>> On a final note, If you tell someone they are shit at playing catch >>> every >>> time they come round to play catch, eventually they will stop coming >>> around. >>> That is what valve has done. >>> >>> PS. yes I do feel bad about contributing to this tripe. >>> >>> Kingsley >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------- >>> From: "Jon" <cha...@trashedgamers.com> >>> Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 2:43 AM >>> To: "Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list" >>> <hlds@list.valvesoftware.com> >>> Subject: Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer! >>> >>> >>>> Agreed! >>>> >>>> Jon >>>> >>>> ________________________________________ >>>> From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com >>>> [hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Kveri >>>> [kv...@kveri.com] >>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 2:07 PM >>>> To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer! >>>> >>>> I agree. >>>> >>>> Kveri >>>> >>>> Blood Letter wrote / napísal(a): >>>> >>>>> If Valve completely ignores server operators who provide free servers, >>>>> without which their games would be useless, they suck. >>>>> >>>>> If Valve lets long standing bugs, exploits, and security issues go >>>>> unattended while focusing only on the latest content update + free >>>>> weekend, they clearly prioritize sales over customers. >>>>> >>>>> I don't know about Valve's office, but if something goes wrong with a >>>>> system at my office, even on Christmas day, we respond to it, and come >>>>> into the office if necessary. If there are fires wreaking havoc with >>>>> the >>>>> power grid and people are being evacuated from their homes, we >>>>> coordinate >>>>> to make sure our servers are backed up, the backups are offsite, and >>>>> the >>>>> servers are safe. >>>>> >>>>> If someone at Valve wants a break, they can take vacation days. Do >>>>> they >>>>> only have 3 guys, and each only does 1 thing? I hope not. Any >>>>> company >>>>> worth it's salt knows you need redundancy in your mind share. >>>>> >>>>> Valve IS ignoring this list, by not replying. They get torn apart >>>>> because they never respond to important issues, they're always late, >>>>> and >>>>> they never, EVER, provide clear and complete answers, let alone any >>>>> semblance of documentation. >>>>> >>>>> Even if I were a child, I would still be a paying customer. If you're >>>>> saying Valve gets a pass because gaming is not a priority in life, >>>>> then >>>>> you don't understand a single thing about having a job. If your job >>>>> is >>>>> to make games, you do that. If your job is to deliver mail, you do >>>>> that. >>>>> Working in a particular job sector does not give you the right to >>>>> slack >>>>> off. >>>>> >>>>> If Valve fixes everything and provides complete and correct >>>>> documentation, then they get support and sales. Going from an F to an >>>>> A >>>>> doesn't change the fact that you still had an F. >>>>> >>>>> No one is treating Valve like shit. We are simply demanding we get >>>>> some >>>>> support, some documentation, and some communication. We get none of >>>>> those things. Being a customer DOES give you the right to expect a >>>>> certain level of quality and service from the business you are >>>>> patronizing. >>>>> >>>>> If Valve's priorities continue to diverge from what so many of us >>>>> expect, >>>>> that's fine. They'll just lose our money and our support. Let's be >>>>> clear here - server admins are supporting Valve, not the other way >>>>> around. I'm sorry I can't apply for a job at Valve, I already have a >>>>> job >>>>> of my own. I can't be programming for everyone in the world, can I? >>>>> Regardless, I wouldn't want to work in an office where a complete lack >>>>> of >>>>> customer support gets a passing grade. >>>>> >>>>> Valve's lack of support and communication is indefensible to anyone >>>>> with >>>>> even a remote knowledge of programming and software development. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 11:12:41 -0500 >>>>>> From: richard....@gmail.com >>>>>> To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com >>>>>> Subject: Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer! >>>>>> >>>>>> If Valve doesn't do everything we say, they suck. If Valve doesn't >>>>>> fix >>>>>> everything now, they suck. If Valve doesn't kiss our asses every >>>>>> second >>>>>> of >>>>>> every day, they suck. They don't care, they won't fix this, they >>>>>> refuse >>>>>> to >>>>>> fix that. All they want is our money. >>>>>> >>>>>> You all sound like a broken record. And worse than that, you have no >>>>>> lives >>>>>> outside of this thing we have here. Did anyone stop to think that >>>>>> since >>>>>> they all busted their asses for who knows how long getting Left 4 >>>>>> Dead >>>>>> out >>>>>> the door, while providing updates to TF2 the whole time, that >>>>>> maybe...just >>>>>> maybe, they'd want to take a break for a little while during the >>>>>> holidays? >>>>>> You know...so they could spend time with their families. >>>>>> >>>>>> Honestly, since release of TOB, there have been a relentless amount >>>>>> of >>>>>> updates to their products. In the time that has passed from TOB >>>>>> until >>>>>> now, >>>>>> the only people being neglected were probably most of the families of >>>>>> Valve >>>>>> employees. Does anyone feel they deserve a little break? >>>>>> >>>>>> They're ignoring us? Really? You think so? Does anyone here >>>>>> subscribe >>>>>> to >>>>>> HLCoders? A little civility goes a long way. In my opinion, Valve >>>>>> isn't >>>>>> ignoring this list, they just don't want to reply. I swear, this >>>>>> list >>>>>> = >>>>>> SPUF sometimes. Any two words they say are held against them >>>>>> forever. >>>>>> >>>>>> I know that a lot of kids subscribe to this list, so it would be >>>>>> difficult >>>>>> for a lot of you to understand, but there is such a thing as >>>>>> priorities >>>>>> in >>>>>> life. Gaming is not as high on that list once you have a family to >>>>>> take >>>>>> care of and a boss to answer to. And you are not the boss of anyone >>>>>> at >>>>>> Valve. >>>>>> >>>>>> Valve knows about the problems, obviously. You all keep saying the >>>>>> same >>>>>> things over and over. Give them a break. Just because you didn't >>>>>> have >>>>>> anything to do for the past couple of weeks doesn't mean they had to >>>>>> sit >>>>>> around and hop on every little problem we have. What happens when >>>>>> updates >>>>>> are released to address the current existing issues? Are you going >>>>>> to >>>>>> apologize for acting like a bunch of assholes or are you going to >>>>>> feel >>>>>> stupid for saying things like, "Valve doesn't care about their games >>>>>> anymore"? Wait...I know. 90% of you will say, "Finally." 5% won't >>>>>> be >>>>>> happy no matter what. 4% will bring up another issue that Valve is >>>>>> ignoring. And 1% will say, "Thank you." >>>>>> >>>>>> Yes, we paid money for the game. But $50 does not give you the right >>>>>> to >>>>>> treat the people trying to help you like shit. Sometimes the >>>>>> problems >>>>>> that >>>>>> you claim are easy fixes may not be so easy to fix. And since most >>>>>> of >>>>>> you >>>>>> know for a fact that it's an easy fix, there's always >>>>>> j...@valvesoftware.com >>>>>> . >>>>>> >>>>>> Grow up. They are aware of the problems. Like Aaron said, there are >>>>>> your >>>>>> priorities and then there are business priorities. Just because the >>>>>> issues >>>>>> high on your list may not be high on theirs doesn't mean they're >>>>>> ignoring >>>>>> you. But then, it would be stupid of me to assume that most of you >>>>>> would >>>>>> understand any of that, especially given your attitudes over the past >>>>>> few >>>>>> months. >>>>>> >>>>>> -Richard Eid >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >>>>>> archives, >>>>>> please visit: >>>>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> _________________________________________________________________ >>>>> It's the same Hotmail®. If by "same" you mean up to 70% faster. >>>>> http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_broad1_122008 >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >>>>> please visit: >>>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >>>> please visit: >>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >>>> please visit: >>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >>> please visit: >>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>> >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >> please visit: >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > _______________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > _______________________________________________ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
