So....the question is now. Why isn't every L4D admin screaming about this? My servers are vanilla as well, so I'm not sure what else there could be that could be causing it.
Neph....does any of this make sense? Should we try putting in a convar that manually connects to the master servers? Aaron Rapp -----Original Message----- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Marlon Wolterink Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2009 6:07 PM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Left 4 Dead Update Available Exactly the same behavior here. All l4d servers empty. Running sourcemod 1.2.0, metamod source 1.7.1. On Both linux and win2003 servers. Adding master server 69.28.140.247:27011 Adding master server 72.165.61.189:27011 Connection to Steam servers successful. ?? VAC secure mode is activated. A2C_PRINT from 69.28.140.247:27011 : Bad challenge. A2C_PRINT from 72.165.61.189:27011 : Bad challenge. A2C_PRINT from 72.165.61.189:27011 : Bad challenge. A2C_PRINT from 72.165.61.189:27011 : -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] Namens hlds-requ...@list.valvesoftware.com Verzonden: Friday, March 13, 2009 2:04 AM Aan: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Onderwerp: hlds Digest, Vol 13, Issue 74 Send hlds mailing list submissions to hlds@list.valvesoftware.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to hlds-requ...@list.valvesoftware.com You can reach the person managing the list at hlds-ow...@list.valvesoftware.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of hlds digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Left 4 Dead Update Available (Aaron Rapp) 2. Re: TF2 Blog Post: Server Scoring (1nsane) 3. Re: TF2 Blog Post: Server Scoring (Nephyrin Zey) 4. Re: TF2 Blog Post: Server Scoring (Nephyrin Zey) 5. Re: TF2 Blog Post: Server Scoring (1nsane) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 00:59:24 +0000 From: "Aaron Rapp" <r...@iz3d.com> Subject: Re: [hlds] Left 4 Dead Update Available To: "Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list" <hlds@list.valvesoftware.com> Message-ID: <1605132566-1236905960-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1462185578-@ bxe1025.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" I'm getting the same exact behavior. Is everyone else getting the same thing? Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: Robert Whelan <mrrjwhe...@yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 17:21:04 To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list<hlds@list.valvesoftware.com> Subject: Re: [hlds] Left 4 Dead Update Available I'm in the same boat... all my server are usually full though after todays update there all empty. I to a peak in the console and it isn't pretty! ? Adding master server 69.28.140.247:27011 Adding master server 72.165.61.189:27011 Connection to Steam servers successful. ?? VAC secure mode is activated. A2C_PRINT from 69.28.140.247:27011 : Bad challenge. A2C_PRINT from 72.165.61.189:27011 : Bad challenge. A2C_PRINT from 72.165.61.189:27011 : Bad challenge. A2C_PRINT from 72.165.61.189:27011 : And it goes on and on and on.... ________________________________ From: Admin Bob <admin_...@cox.net> To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list <hlds@list.valvesoftware.com> Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2009 7:05:32 PM Subject: Re: [hlds] Left 4 Dead Update Available Even after the update we had last night, I was getting traffic on my server. After the update we had today, I haven't had any traffic since.? I don't even have sv_search_key set. -----Original Message----- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of msleeper Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2009 3:31 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Left 4 Dead Update Available Looks like this works for me, my servers are slowly getting traffic. It also looks like you guys fixed the AI Bots showing up and possibly keeping real players from joining. Great work! On Thu, 2009-03-12 at 13:16 -0700, Jason Ruymen wrote: > Left 4 Dead has been updated.? This is not required, but certainly recommended.? Please run hldsupdatetool to receive it.? The specific changes include: > > - Fixed sv_search_key appearing in server browser > - Fixed issue where changing the sv_search_key did not update the master correctly > - Fixed master server issue with Linux fork mode that affected availability of Valve dedicated servers > - Tank melee attack can now hit multiple Survivors in one swing > > > Jason > >_______________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds _______________________________________________ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds _______________________________________________ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds _______________________________________________ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 21:00:06 -0400 From: 1nsane <1nsane...@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [hlds] TF2 Blog Post: Server Scoring To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list <hlds@list.valvesoftware.com> Message-ID: <6a7129440903121800tfba7591jfa92d74852125...@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I always get assigned more IPs than I will ever need. So surely some others do too? De-listed? new ip! Meh And Valve can't blacklist an IP for long... it would put game server hosts out of business rather quickly. On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 8:49 PM, Octo <octodhd_h...@monkeyrings.com> wrote: > Although people might game the system, I assume that there will be one or > more > sanity checks, and that bans might not be 100% automatic. If anything this > system gives Valve a smaller list of servers to look at/look into to see if > their behavior warrants a delist. One of the problems with trying to > police > such a large and ever changing population is narrowing down your search. > > Its unreasonable to think that valve has the time and man power to check > every server out to see if something sketchy is going on. If they took the > worst 1% (or even the worst .1%) and evaluated them they could remove a > great > deal of the problem servers with a much smaller amount of time invested. > > Since they did not specify what the grounds for actual blacklisting would > be > I think its entirely possible that you'd need to have multiple negative > days > before any sort of action was taken, as long as this sort of information is > a secret I think that gaming it by either side (rogue admin trying to stay > under the cap, or determined group of players trying to delist someone) > would be too costly (as far as time required) for it to be worth doing. > > I think the most important point raised by all of this is that there will > be blacklisting, and that in itself decreases the desire for people to try > to do things such as run fakeclients. Sure some people will still try to > 'cheat' and gain an advantage, but as long as there arent false positives > I'd rather have less of those people listed than do nothing about it. > > > > On Fri, Mar 13, 2009 at 12:32:42AM -0000, gamead...@127001.org wrote: > > I'd agree that now that this is out in the open, its usefulness for > > blacklisting is over, but I'd argue that up until now, the only servers > that > > matched the pattern of consistent connections followed by immediate > > disconnections would be fakeclients servers, so, assuming the stats can't > be > > manipulated, I don't have a problem with delisting. > > > > I'd also argue that, up until now, the secrecy has ensured no > manipulation > > and, from now on, the situation is reversed. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds- > > > boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of SmOoThEm > > > Sent: 13 March 2009 00:27 > > > To: 'Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list' > > > Subject: Re: [hlds] TF2 Blog Post: Server Scoring > > > > > > You guys are missing the point here, and it's going to be a big > > > problem. > > > > > > Let's say I get 15 people to join a server and then leave just because > > > I > > > don?t like the owners etc. > > > There goes 225 points from the server for no reason at all. I can see > > > people > > > like mygot getting servers delisted even if it only counts each player > > > once > > > per month. Also when a player joins a server and gets kicked for a > > > reserve > > > slot or cause of the steambans plugin this will really trash a server > > > score > > > because the player is actually connected before getting kicked. > > > > > > Taking away points is a horrible idea, but giving points based upon > > > play > > > time really has potential. I can see where this idea is going but > > > removing > > > servers that people pay for from the list just because it isn't popular > > > is > > > bullshit. Everyone has to start somewhere and it takes a lot of work to > > > get > > > a new server full of regular returning players. Before valve does > > > anything > > > like this they need to consult the community! I don?t think valve > > > really > > > understands how much money is spent each year from organizations to > > > provide > > > servers for the games they create. Personally we spend thousands. If > > > they > > > would do something like this to benefit the server owners and the > > > players at > > > the same time it would prevail a success and actually give merit to > > > established servers. > > > A better idea would be allowing servers in the list to be sorted by > > > their > > > score and not just by names, pings, players, etc. This way no one is > > > de-listed and the same effect is obtained for the players. > > > > > > TALK TO US VALVE, DON?T JUST LEAVE US OUT TO DRY!!!!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com > > > [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Donnie > > > Newlove > > > Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2009 4:47 PM > > > To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list > > > Subject: Re: [hlds] TF2 Blog Post: Server Scoring > > > > > > If if is a global problem and not only a server problem then it would > > > not matter because every server would be penalised for it and since a > > > rank will only mean anything when compared to other servers it should > > > not matter. > > > > > > On Fri, Mar 13, 2009 at 12:36 AM, 1nsane <1nsane...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > Hmm connection time... So clients dropped by steam/vac connection > > > issues > > > > will give negative points too? :D > > > > > > > > On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 7:21 PM, Octo <octodhd_h...@monkeyrings.com> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > >> Oh this is great news =) > > > >> > > > >> As long as theres not a way to game this to force the delist of a > > > competing > > > >> community. ?I'll assume they only count a steamid's vote once for a > > > server > > > >> in a large time frame, so that flapping clients wont cause a huge > > > point > > > >> hit. > > > >> > > > >> Now if only you gave a vanilla server bonus.... > > > >> > > > >> On Fri, Mar 13, 2009 at 10:14:24AM +1100, Andrew Armstrong wrote: > > > >> > Check out http://teamfortress.com/ > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > "One of the things we've been thinking about for a while now is > > > how to > > > >> > improve the player experience around finding a server to play on" > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > . > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > "After kicking around some proposals, we came up with a simple > > > system > > > >> built > > > >> > around the theory that player time on a server is a useful metric > > > for > > > how > > > >> > happy the player is with that server." > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > "The very worst servers attract a large number of connections, > > > mostly > > > >> > because they're lying in ways that make them look like a very > > > attractive > > > >> > server at all times." > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > "Our first step in improving this part of the player experience > > > has > > > been > > > >> to > > > >> > delist all the really bad servers. The master server will simply > > > stop > > > >> giving > > > >> > these to you when you fire up the serverbrowser. After that, we're > > > going > > > >> to > > > >> > keep improving our ability to measure this kind of problem." > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > This sounds very cool, and I look forward to see what Valve can > > > come up > > > >> with > > > >> > in using these stats. > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > - ? ? ? ? ?Andrew > > > >> > > > > >> > _______________________________________________ > > > >> > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > > > archives, > > > >> please visit: > > > >> > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > >> > > > >> _______________________________________________ > > > >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > > > archives, > > > >> please visit: > > > >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > > > archives, > > > please visit: > > > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > > please visit: > > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > > please visit: > > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > _______________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 18:02:22 -0700 From: Nephyrin Zey <nephy...@doublezen.net> Subject: Re: [hlds] TF2 Blog Post: Server Scoring To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list <hlds@list.valvesoftware.com> Message-ID: <4e2d7e1e0903121802i2884d6cdl7015caba9536d...@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 If your server is kicking 20+ people over 20 minutes who have to sit through a load screen before finding out the server doesn't want them, maybe you deserve a lower score! There are many methods of reserve slots that dont screw over players: - Set sv_maxvisibleplayers to the actual joinable slots, so you dont 'appear' to have one slot open that you dont - If you have few reserved slots use the CBaseServer extension + plugin from predcrab/sourcemod: http://forums.alliedmods.net/showthread.php?t=72322 (this will still kick people, but much less often) - A combination of both - Neph On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 5:47 PM, SmOoThEm <ad...@righttorule.com> wrote: > What about reserve slots? Everyone uses those to provide their special > people with access without admin intervention. > > A user must connect to a server before he is then kicked to clear the slot. > Ive been watching my Badwater server for the past 20 mins and ive seen over > 20+ people get kicked for joining the 32nd slot. > > Delisting servers is not a good idea at all, but awarding popular servers > is! A simple server list sorting ability for the new "server ranks" would be > the best way to go. ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 18:03:27 -0700 From: Nephyrin Zey <nephy...@doublezen.net> Subject: Re: [hlds] TF2 Blog Post: Server Scoring To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list <hlds@list.valvesoftware.com> Message-ID: <4e2d7e1e0903121803o1e971ffer8ae21d448b2f4...@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 And you lose all your favourites... at that point you're just griefing valve more than anything else. And there's plenty of ways to do that. - Neph ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 21:04:00 -0400 From: 1nsane <1nsane...@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [hlds] TF2 Blog Post: Server Scoring To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list <hlds@list.valvesoftware.com> Message-ID: <6a7129440903121804u5e36fda5qb77c647557a0a...@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 That's what I do. Really no reason to have people join into reserved slots. Just hide them. This might actually force other server admins to re-evaluate their reserved slot system... But what about banning? Sourcebans and the like? On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 8:58 PM, Donnie Newlove <donnie.newl...@gmail.com>wrote: > Then don't kick players. Players that get kicked for no apparent > reason will have a bad experience and thus reducing score because of > reserved slots is not a problem, it's a feature. This system is not > made for you, it?s made for the players. > > But there is an easy solution. Make your server use 26 slots or 32 or > whatever is needed, hide those extra slots and then use them for > reserved players. No one gets kicked and players with reserved slots > will join their extra reserved slots. It's already built into > SourceMod. > > On Fri, Mar 13, 2009 at 1:47 AM, SmOoThEm <ad...@righttorule.com> wrote: > > What about reserve slots? Everyone uses those to provide their special > > people with access without admin intervention. > > > > A user must connect to a server before he is then kicked to clear the > slot. > > Ive been watching my Badwater server for the past 20 mins and ive seen > over > > 20+ people get kicked for joining the 32nd slot. > > > > Delisting servers is not a good idea at all, but awarding popular servers > > is! A simple server list sorting ability for the new "server ranks" would > be > > the best way to go. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com > > [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of > > gamead...@127001.org > > Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2009 5:33 PM > > To: 'Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list' > > Subject: Re: [hlds] TF2 Blog Post: Server Scoring > > > > I'd agree that now that this is out in the open, its usefulness for > > blacklisting is over, but I'd argue that up until now, the only servers > that > > matched the pattern of consistent connections followed by immediate > > disconnections would be fakeclients servers, so, assuming the stats can't > be > > manipulated, I don't have a problem with delisting. > > > > I'd also argue that, up until now, the secrecy has ensured no > manipulation > > and, from now on, the situation is reversed. > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds- > >> boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of SmOoThEm > >> Sent: 13 March 2009 00:27 > >> To: 'Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list' > >> Subject: Re: [hlds] TF2 Blog Post: Server Scoring > >> > >> You guys are missing the point here, and it's going to be a big > >> problem. > >> > >> Let's say I get 15 people to join a server and then leave just because > >> I > >> don?t like the owners etc. > >> There goes 225 points from the server for no reason at all. I can see > >> people > >> like mygot getting servers delisted even if it only counts each player > >> once > >> per month. Also when a player joins a server and gets kicked for a > >> reserve > >> slot or cause of the steambans plugin this will really trash a server > >> score > >> because the player is actually connected before getting kicked. > >> > >> Taking away points is a horrible idea, but giving points based upon > >> play > >> time really has potential. I can see where this idea is going but > >> removing > >> servers that people pay for from the list just because it isn't popular > >> is > >> bullshit. Everyone has to start somewhere and it takes a lot of work to > >> get > >> a new server full of regular returning players. Before valve does > >> anything > >> like this they need to consult the community! I don?t think valve > >> really > >> understands how much money is spent each year from organizations to > >> provide > >> servers for the games they create. Personally we spend thousands. If > >> they > >> would do something like this to benefit the server owners and the > >> players at > >> the same time it would prevail a success and actually give merit to > >> established servers. > >> A better idea would be allowing servers in the list to be sorted by > >> their > >> score and not just by names, pings, players, etc. This way no one is > >> de-listed and the same effect is obtained for the players. > >> > >> TALK TO US VALVE, DON?T JUST LEAVE US OUT TO DRY!!!!!! > >> > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com > >> [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Donnie > >> Newlove > >> Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2009 4:47 PM > >> To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list > >> Subject: Re: [hlds] TF2 Blog Post: Server Scoring > >> > >> If if is a global problem and not only a server problem then it would > >> not matter because every server would be penalised for it and since a > >> rank will only mean anything when compared to other servers it should > >> not matter. > >> > >> On Fri, Mar 13, 2009 at 12:36 AM, 1nsane <1nsane...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> > Hmm connection time... So clients dropped by steam/vac connection > >> issues > >> > will give negative points too? :D > >> > > >> > On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 7:21 PM, Octo <octodhd_h...@monkeyrings.com> > >> wrote: > >> > > >> >> Oh this is great news =) > >> >> > >> >> As long as theres not a way to game this to force the delist of a > >> competing > >> >> community. I'll assume they only count a steamid's vote once for a > >> server > >> >> in a large time frame, so that flapping clients wont cause a huge > >> point > >> >> hit. > >> >> > >> >> Now if only you gave a vanilla server bonus.... > >> >> > >> >> On Fri, Mar 13, 2009 at 10:14:24AM +1100, Andrew Armstrong wrote: > >> >> > Check out http://teamfortress.com/ > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > "One of the things we've been thinking about for a while now is > >> how to > >> >> > improve the player experience around finding a server to play on" > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > . > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > "After kicking around some proposals, we came up with a simple > >> system > >> >> built > >> >> > around the theory that player time on a server is a useful metric > >> for > >> how > >> >> > happy the player is with that server." > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > "The very worst servers attract a large number of connections, > >> mostly > >> >> > because they're lying in ways that make them look like a very > >> attractive > >> >> > server at all times." > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > "Our first step in improving this part of the player experience > >> has > >> been > >> >> to > >> >> > delist all the really bad servers. The master server will simply > >> stop > >> >> giving > >> >> > these to you when you fire up the serverbrowser. After that, we're > >> going > >> >> to > >> >> > keep improving our ability to measure this kind of problem." > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > This sounds very cool, and I look forward to see what Valve can > >> come up > >> >> with > >> >> > in using these stats. > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > - Andrew > >> >> > > >> >> > _______________________________________________ > >> >> > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > >> archives, > >> >> please visit: > >> >> > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > >> >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ > >> >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > >> archives, > >> >> please visit: > >> >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > >> >> > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > >> archives, > >> please visit: > >> > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > >> > > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > >> please visit: > >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > >> please visit: > >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > please visit: > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > _______________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds End of hlds Digest, Vol 13, Issue 74 ************************************ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.12/1998 - Release Date: 03/12/09 18:23:00 _______________________________________________ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds _______________________________________________ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
