Critical mass of hyperbole reached.
On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 6:26 PM, Robert Paulson <thepauls...@gmail.com> wrote: > Regardless of the reason Valve has for essentially removing community > servers from quickplay, this change has done more harm than good. > > I don't know how many times I need to keep citing this. How many more > players does TF2 need to lose before someone at Valve wakes up? It is > already summer time and player counts are lower than ever. > > > http://www.steamgraph.net/index.php?action=graph&jstime=1&appid=440&from=1388563200000&to=End+Time > > The longer this policy remains the more permanent damage you are doing to > communities people have spent years building up. > > > On Wed, Jun 4, 2014 at 8:04 PM, Alexander Corn <mc...@doctormckay.com> > wrote: > >> Source radio is obviously not the only thing that it would break. What's >> minor to you may not be minor to others. >> >> Plenty of TF2 trade servers have a !bp command which opens a player's >> backpack (in an online backpack viewer) in the MOTD panel. Without >> JavaScript, hovering over an item won't show a tooltip with its details. >> Sure, this could be done in CSS exclusively, but nobody does that because >> having JavaScript enabled is basically a given in modern web development. >> >> I'd rather have to work harder to populate my Quickplay servers than have >> to deal with a completely useless MOTD browser. As others have said, the >> HTML MOTD disable option is there for a reason. >> >> Additionally, HTML MOTDs aren't even displayed for Quickplay connections. >> I really don't understand why it's even an issue anymore. It's already been >> crippled considerably. >> >> >> Dr. McKay >> www.doctormckay.com >> >> >> On Wed, Jun 4, 2014 at 1:50 PM, E. Olsen <ceo.eol...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> I agree that disabling javascript/flash/html5 is less than an ideal >>> solution, but for the very minor things it would disable (source radio, >>> etc.), if it would allow Valve to return to a level playing field it would >>> be a very small sacrifice. I'm sure if Valve came to all of us and said >>> "we'll enable all servers by default, but we need to remove those elements >>> from the web browser to do so" we would all jump at that chance. I honestly >>> believe as long as operators have the ability to run those kinds of ads it >>> will be abused by the blackhat folks to the point that they ruin it for the >>> rest of us. >>> >>> I fully agree that mass punishment is/was a seriously ham-fisted >>> approach to dealing with the issues, and was the wrong (and frankly, >>> unethical) way to treat all server operators. >>> >>> I like your ideas for better informing the players regarding quickplay >>> options, but as with any system of this kind, I think it should start with >>> "maximum diversity" fully enabled by default, and allow the players to opt >>> out, instead of opting in. Only then will it be a truly level playing field >>> for all servers. >>> >>> On a side note, I would also like to know why the "server scoring" >>> system (apparently) didn't work, and why it wasn't more effectively used to >>> weed out all the bad apples in the first place. >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Jun 4, 2014 at 11:25 AM, Alexander Corn <mc...@doctormckay.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> > >>>> >>>> Further - if Valve wanted to get rid of those horrendous MOTD ads (and >>>> I wish to hell they would), they could easily do it by disabling >>>> flash/javascript/html5 from functioning in the in-game web browser (which >>>> would have probably fixed the problem almost entirely). >>>> >>>> This is still not an ideal solution. Plenty of community servers rely >>>> on the MOTD and features such as JavaScript and Flash (mostly for audio >>>> streams, but many are switching to HTML5 audio elements) for their custom >>>> features. Removing those features is still removing features that have >>>> existed for a very long time due to the abusive tendencies of a few. >>>> >>>> Those that are abusive should be dealt with. There is no reason why >>>> everyone should suffer in order to punish a few. It goes back to grade >>>> school gym class. Weren't you pissed when the teacher/coach made everyone >>>> run laps or whatever because 3-4 kids wouldn't stop talking? That's how >>>> we're being treated now. >>>> >>>> I could live with the default Valve-only option if it were more obvious >>>> how to switch it. When the player first starts up TF2, they're shown popups >>>> directing them to the store, showing them how the backpack works, etc. >>>> Ironically, these popups really only cover the item system, which most can >>>> agree comes second to actual gameplay. There's no coaching regarding how to >>>> actually join a game. >>>> >>>> Display a balloon that points to the Quickplay button and says >>>> something like, "Click here to be quickly matched into a game based on >>>> gamemode" and one that points to the servers button and says something >>>> like, "Click here to fine-tune your desired game settings". >>>> >>>> Also show a balloon in the Quickplay dialog that points to the settings >>>> button (which isn't exactly immediately apparent as being clickable) and >>>> also a dialog that explains the difference between official and community >>>> servers. >>>> >>>> "Official servers offer an unmodified and uncustomized experience." >>>> >>>> "Community servers typically offer better moderation, some minor >>>> gameplay modifications, and a greater sense of community." >>>> >>>> >>>> Dr. McKay >>>> www.doctormckay.com >>>> >>>> >>>> On Mon, Jun 2, 2014 at 5:45 PM, E. Olsen <ceo.eol...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Perhaps it's time to examine the possibility that Valve is very >>>>>> purposefully forcing community run servers into the minority because >>>>>> they're straight tired of having to play code-counter-code withe people >>>>>> like the fuckjobs who programmed plugins to force ads down players >>>>>> throats >>>>>> and other like-minded stains. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I guess I would consider that a valid argument if it wasn't Valve who >>>>> had enabled the "ad farms" in the first place. Those things were never a >>>>> problem before quickplay came along, because those kinds of servers would >>>>> never get favorited to see a return visitor. The Pinion-supported folks >>>>> were only enabled by quickplay, plain and simple - which is why when >>>>> Pinion >>>>> came on the scene shortly after quickplay came along, you had these guys >>>>> go >>>>> from a dozen or so servers to 100+ just to farm ad impressions. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Further - if Valve wanted to get rid of those horrendous MOTD ads (and >>>>> I wish to hell they would), they could easily do it by disabling >>>>> flash/javascript/html5 from functioning in the in-game web browser (which >>>>> would have probably fixed the problem almost entirely). If they did that, >>>>> and just quietly dropped any of the "premium" servers from quickplay, they >>>>> would have knocked out all but the most determined black-hat folks, and >>>>> those can always be dealt with. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Jun 2, 2014 at 5:14 PM, Eli Witt <eliw...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Replied to the last message, I'll post this here too. >>>>>> >>>>>> Well, we know from experience just how good Valve is at keeping a lid >>>>>> on things (case in point HL3) so I doubt they're going to acknowledge >>>>>> this >>>>>> in any way unless they see fit to, not because we're disgruntled and >>>>>> asking >>>>>> for information. >>>>>> >>>>>> And for what it's worth, everyone (who's opinion on this list is >>>>>> worth a damn) has thrown out the point that "we're the ones providing the >>>>>> servers for Valve, we're the ones who give their players a place to play >>>>>> etc etc" - but what I think is going unnoticed here is the fact that >>>>>> Valve >>>>>> is obviously taking steps (and increasingly larger ones) to nullify that >>>>>> argument in it's entirety. >>>>>> >>>>>> Perhaps it's time to examine the possibility that Valve is very >>>>>> purposefully forcing community run servers into the minority because >>>>>> they're straight tired of having to play code-counter-code withe people >>>>>> like the fuckjobs who programmed plugins to force ads down players >>>>>> throats >>>>>> and other like-minded stains. >>>>>> >>>>>> We've got the binaries on both ends, and Valve knows this. It's >>>>>> virtually impossible to stop people from being fuckjobs with access to >>>>>> both >>>>>> binaries, so let [Valve] just diminish the footprint the fuckjobs get >>>>>> access by about 90% by forcing people into the servers we can afford to >>>>>> run >>>>>> now that we've monetized TF2. >>>>>> >>>>>> If I was Valve and I made this decision, I wouldn't give a piss >>>>>> whether people who run servers are upset by this or threaten to pull >>>>>> their >>>>>> servers offline because of this decision, because that's the direction I >>>>>> wanted to force you in anyway. >>>>>> >>>>>> Just a thought. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mon, Jun 2, 2014 at 4:47 PM, Robert Paulson <thepauls...@gmail.com >>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Making a new thread because replies are being blocked with "Message >>>>>>> body is too big: 41090 bytes with a limit of 40 KB". >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Complaints here have historically gone ignored but it doesn't mean >>>>>>> it is a bad idea to keep the issue in the spotlight here as well. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Just make sure you also contact Valve directly. >>>>>>> http://valvesoftware.com/email.php >>>>>>> Some people say Fletcher is in charge of TF2 now so email him too. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> We're really past the point in asking Valve for an "answer". The >>>>>>> answer is probably the same as before: a handful of servers ruined the >>>>>>> experience for a few new players and some lazy players who couldn't be >>>>>>> bothered to type valve in the tags. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> So they threw in some useless features like quickpick and released >>>>>>> server migrations at the same time to shut you up before you realize >>>>>>> your >>>>>>> community was also going to get screwed so there would be no huge public >>>>>>> outrage. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> What needs to be done now is to get someone at Valve to realize that >>>>>>> this change did more harm than good and there is evidence to prove it. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Any other argument we bring up they will consider it biased because >>>>>>> we host servers and somehow that means we don't care about players. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Ever since the change, global TF2 player counts have steadily been >>>>>>> dropping. Peaks have dipped from 82k to 71k, a 15% loss. And summer >>>>>>> vacation has already started as you can see from the weekday player >>>>>>> counts. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.steamgraph.net/index.php?action=graph&jstime=1&appid=440&from=1388563200000&to=End+Time >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >>>>>>> archives, please visit: >>>>>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >>>>>> archives, please visit: >>>>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >>>>> please visit: >>>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >>>> please visit: >>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >>> please visit: >>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >> please visit: >> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds > >
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