Server-seeding has been around as long as community-hosted servers has (all the way back to the original Counter Strike and even Battlefield 2). Like it or not, players rarely if ever join empty servers, and with the deck stacked so staggeringly high in Valve's favor in terms of player traffic, server operators who obey the rules need some kind of help to get those servers going.
Let's face it - if ALL servers were treated fairly and equally again, this wouldn't even be an issue. When the road to your organization is bypassed by an expressway, and the builders of that expressway have literally hidden the off ramp for people to get to you, then I don't care how good you are or how popular you were, your organization is going to suffer immensely. I think the real issue here is how difficult is has become to start and/or grow a community "organically". Regardless of how you feel about ad-based servers (full disclosure, I'm opposed to them), there is no doubt that the harder Valve makes it for communities trying to grow organically, the more they end up strangling off the very diversity they claim to want to encourage. Think about it - communities used to grow one or two servers at a time as their membership grew. Now, the vast majority of "communities" (and I use that word extremely loosely) only offer a handful of stock maps. However, as opposed to building a server fleet that grows one server at a time with the community, they take the top 5-6 maps, plaster ads all over them, and throw up as many servers as they possibly can. That's not building a community to serve the players, that's building an ad-farm to maximize ad-impressions. ...and therein lies the problem. The current approach has marginalized the communities that want to offer diversity beyond a handful of stock maps, and encouraged massive fleets of "me too" stock servers with little to no interest in adding value to the experience, but with an eye towards maximizing player connections. The lack of a text-mode doesn't really trouble me. It's the absolute and seemingly insurmountable sense of apathy from the TF2 team towards community servers that does. If these guys would just talk to us again and tell us what community servers need to do as a whole to get some equitable treatment again, it would be better for everyone and anyone that cares about TF2. All I really want is for players to be better informed about all the diversity community servers bring to the game. On Tue, Oct 13, 2015 at 2:36 PM, N-Gon <ngongamedes...@gmail.com> wrote: > Welp, you guys heard it here first. > Let's call it a day and let ad-based servers like skial have complete > reign of the place. > > On Tue, Oct 13, 2015 at 2:30 PM, Michael Loveless <mloveless1...@gmail.com > > wrote: > >> What are you trying to hear exactly? You have no interest in being in >> your own server to populate but wanna listen to what players are saying? >> Once a server achieves enough players to even warrant listening in on >> conversations, what is the purpose of these extra clients to seed the >> server? You've constantly repeated the word server so it's safe to assume >> you're only running one, as it doesn't seem likely you would want to even >> try deciphering the jibberish you would hear while listening in on multiple >> servers at once. >> >> I think this is one of problems Valve is looking to resolve. You load the >> server up with a bunch of "seeder" clients, players join your server >> thinking it's populated, players waste time while learning no one is >> actually there, now there is another player (potentially new to the game >> with all these recent updates) who thinks all community servers are shit >> then end up on Valve's servers anyway. Sure it's really hard to organically >> grow a community especially in a game where there is already server >> over-saturation as well as long-term established communities but it's clear >> as day that the negatives outweigh the positives when it comes to textmode >> and you're here arguing an almost irrelevant point about presumably >> listening to player voice chat while populating the server with afk >> clients. If you spent more time in your servers interacting with people >> growing your community you would hear all necessary voice chat, see all >> necessary console spew, and not need to habitually trick people. >> >> On Tue, Oct 13, 2015 at 1:53 PM, HD <ad...@gamerscrib.net> wrote: >> >>> By the sounds o fit the benefits are just benefits and nothing to do >>> with any type of abuse. You still own a REAL client if you log it in either >>> regular graphical or textmode. >>> >>> HLSW is unsupported and needs to be updated so bad it isn’t even funny >>> but yes I already use it for chat logging. I log a client into a server – >>> it shows my client in and along with other players some of which are also >>> AFK to be in the server which doesn’t hurt anything and helps “seeding” it >>> to grow… I mainly use it for LISTENING to what is going on in the server >>> since logging audio takes way too much bandwidth, need to hear things in >>> real time as they are happening and so on. There is no other simple >>> alternative than launching the game in –textmode and just listening. What I >>> can’t figure out here is why this is so hard to comprehend vs everyone >>> trying to figure out bad things from it when there really aren’t any that >>> I’ve ever seen or used. >>> >>> If you know of a plugin that does the exact same thing as what I used >>> –textmode for, listening LIVE in real time to what is going on with ALL >>> sounds in the game while also allowing me to log my client into the game to >>> help seed my server then by all means I’m ready to listen/read all about it. >>> >>> >>> >>> As I figured though not a single response from valve once again on this >>> topic. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto: >>> hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] *On Behalf Of *Cody Mathisen >>> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 13, 2015 1:10 PM >>> >>> *To:* Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list >>> *Subject:* Re: [hlds] Optional TF2 update released >>> >>> >>> >>> By the sounds of it the abuse that has come up heavily outweigh any >>> benefits of -textmode. >>> >>> >>> >>> I'm not sure exactly what information you are 'seeding' but I'm sure >>> there are multiple addons/plugins/tools to help you accomplish something >>> similar. If it is just chat, you could simply download HLSW >>> <http://www.hlsw.org/> and tune in with RCON. If you wanted to log chat >>> to a database or do something more extensive, this could be accomplished >>> using sourcemod plugins. I'm sure you could find some kind of plugin out >>> there to help accomplish whatever you are looking for. There are thousands >>> of plugins out there... >>> >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Oct 13, 2015 at 12:00 PM HD <ad...@gamerscrib.net> wrote: >>> >>> Regardless I used -textmode for specific reasons not to abuse any type of >>> system. I disagree with this change and as I said I don't expect Valve to >>> reply to any of these complaints as they haven't others in the past. I >>> guess I'll have to launch the client regularly - alt tab it down and >>> leave >>> it like that to help seed and listen to whats being said when I'm not in >>> there. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com >>> [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of ics >>> Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2015 11:26 AM >>> To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [hlds] Optional TF2 update released >>> >>> You may have used it for one client but the truth is, this guy earlier >>> who >>> posted used it to ten, even more clients. Also i think someone already >>> has a >>> script that can be ran in textmode that autoaccepts the items that drop. >>> So >>> no more manual accept and idling can continue. I'm not 100% sure about >>> this, >>> i just heard about it few months back. >>> >>> Play the game, run the servers, don't mix clients and players. Thanks. >>> >>> -ics >>> >>> HD kirjoitti: >>> > >>> > I used it to log ONE client in so I could seed with it and hear what >>> > was going on in the server. Additionally it was nice to see on my >>> > screen at home what was going on thru the console too vs remote >>> > desktop into the server. I can't speak for everyone else but even >>> > still a REAL CLIENT is a real client.not Fake player counts. >>> > Regardless of how many you log in if they are REAL clients which they >>> > were then I don't see the issue with that at all. That is much >>> > different then coding in fake clients showing up or fake numbers for >>> > server population. >>> > >>> > Either way this is just stupid and pointless to argue since we won't >>> > hear a damn word from Valve on this or anything else when it comes to >>> > Servers with this game. I'm kinda sick of it and damn near ready to >>> > say the hell with it all and their games. >>> > >>> > *From:*hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com >>> > [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] *On Behalf Of *Kyle >>> > Sanderson >>> > *Sent:* Tuesday, October 13, 2015 10:04 AM >>> > *To:* Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list >>> > *Subject:* Re: [hlds] Optional TF2 update released >>> > >>> > Just so we're clear, you guys were only using this to fake player >>> > counts on your servers? Where's the negative impact here? This sounds >>> > like a much needed change to prevent scumbaggery. >>> > >>> > Kyle. >>> > >>> > On 13 Oct 2015 6:14 a.m., "N-Gon" <ngongamedes...@gmail.com >>> > <mailto:ngongamedes...@gmail.com>> wrote: >>> > >>> > Back when I ran servers I used to use Sandboxie and a bunch of >>> > accounts in textmode to help populate my servers. >>> > >>> > It's a struggle when you don't have a well known community, I feel bad >>> > for the folks who've just been hurt by this change. >>> > >>> > On Tue, Oct 13, 2015 at 8:45 AM, HD <ad...@gamerscrib.net >>> > <mailto:ad...@gamerscrib.net>> wrote: >>> > >>> > Yea I saw it last night... this is beyond a wasteful change. I use it >>> > for a client so I can listen in a server without using a bunch of >>> > resources. >>> > Why was this change made and what alternative do you have besides >>> > launching the game in full and alt tabbing now. >>> > >>> > >>> > -----Original Message----- >>> > From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com >>> > <mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com> >>> > [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com >>> > <mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com>] On Behalf Of Rudy >>> > Bleeker >>> > Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2015 3:02 AM >>> > To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list >>> > Subject: Re: [hlds] Optional TF2 update released >>> > >>> > From the client patch notes from October 12, 2015: >>> > >>> > - Running in textmode now places the client in insecure mode >>> > >>> > On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 2:50 AM, HD <ad...@gamerscrib.net >>> > <mailto:ad...@gamerscrib.net>> wrote: >>> > > Anyone else having issues now using a client into their servers >>> > > using -textmode for launch options? I log in an account this way >>> > > every so often to "listen" in the server while reading chat but for >>> > > some reason now I get the "You are in insecure mode. You must >>> > > restart before you can connect to secure servers.". >>> > > >>> > > I've not changed nothing - not a single thing and it just started >>> > > after last nights update came out. I've reinstalled TF2 on that >>> > > computer but nothing has changed. >>> > > I'm convinced something got messed up from this update as I tried it >>> > > on another computer and it did the exact same thing. >>> > > >>> > > Anyone able to explain this? >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > -----Original Message----- >>> > > From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com >>> > <mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com> >>> > > [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com >>> > <mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com>] On Behalf Of Eric Smith >>> > > Sent: Friday, October 09, 2015 5:52 PM >>> > > To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com >>> > <mailto:hlds@list.valvesoftware.com>; >>> > hlds_li...@list.valvesoftware.com >>> > <mailto:hlds_li...@list.valvesoftware.com> >>> > > Subject: [hlds] Optional TF2 update released >>> > > >>> > > We've released an optional update for TF2 that updates the Invasion >>> > > Community Update Coin to also count assists. This is an optional >>> > > dedicated server update and is not required unless you are running >>> > > any of the Invasion maps and would like to support this new feature. >>> > > >>> > > Thanks. >>> > > >>> > > -Eric >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > _______________________________________________ >>> > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >>> > > archives, please visit: >>> > > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > _______________________________________________ >>> > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >>> > > archives, >>> > please visit: >>> > > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > -- >>> > Idleness is not doing nothing. Idleness is being free to do anything. >>> > - Floyd Dell >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >>> > please visit: >>> > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>> > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >>> > please visit: >>> > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>> > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >>> > please visit: >>> > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >>> please visit: >>> > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >>> please visit: >>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >>> please visit: >>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >>> please visit: >>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >> please visit: >> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds > >
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