I think the biggest challenge with doubling the player count (meaning number of mercs running around, whether AI or human) is just plain old performance, both server and client.
-----Original Message----- From: hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of ics Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2012 12:34 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions Things go unstable when there are more than 33 slots. Also there are engine restrictions that cannot be raised just like that. One thing is that entity limit of 2047. When one more is created in-game, crash happens. -ics 14.8.2012 22:24, Nomaan Ahmad kirjoitti: > I dont think anyone is acting like its easy... Servers can already > have more than 33 slots, its just that the tf2 client doesn't allow > players to get on servers with more than 33 slots. > > On 14 August 2012 20:19, Nerdboy <nerdb...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> You guys act as if changing the hard limit is easy. There's all sorts >> of resource management issues that would need to be resolved and a >> lot of the engine would need adjustment. Let's wait to play the game >> before we start thinking about overhauling things to change it. >> On Aug 14, 2012 3:16 PM, "Ryan Stecker" <voidedwea...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> I third this. I think it'd open the door to making some interesting >>> missions involving more players and more bots. >>> >>> On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 1:51 PM, Nomaan Ahmad <n0man....@gmail.com> >> wrote: >>>> I agree with 1nsane. >>>> >>>> On 14 August 2012 19:50, 1nsane <1nsane...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Like Asher mentioned above, could you consider increasing the limit. >> So >>>> we >>>>> could better experiment with this mode? >>>>> Perhaps include a warning similar to how players are warned about >>> joining >>>>> servers higher than 24 slots. >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 1:00 PM, Fletcher Dunn >>>>> <fletch...@valvesoftware.com>wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> We will not have Steam group functionality tomorrow. >>>>>> >>>>>> You actually have to set maxplayers to 32 to host MvM (to make >>>>>> room >>> for >>>>>> all the bots). That's why the mode is expensive CPU-wise, to not >>> only >>>>>> simulate all those players but run their AI logic as well. We'll >>> have >>>>> more >>>>>> details on the recommended settings tomorrow. >>>>>> >>>>>> Regarding exactly what happens if a 24-player server switches to >> MvM: >>>> I >>>>>> actually don't think we have worked that out yet. >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm pretty sure on day one there will be lots of people trying >>>>>> out >>> all >>>>>> sorts of things. Our approach to experimentation in MvM will be >> the >>>> same >>>>>> as in PvP: we encourage it, provided that players are opting in >>>>>> to >>> any >>>>>> major deviations from the vanilla experience. Our servers will >>>>>> all >>> be >>>>>> configured vanilla, and the matchmaking will enforce the 6 player >>>> limit, >>>>>> and the server browser will be the primary means for players to >> find >>>>> those >>>>>> sorts of customizations. What will the most interesting >>> customizations >>>>> be? >>>>>> What will the standard tags be used that we request server >> operators >>>> to >>>>>> set in order to help players find the modifications they want or >>> avoid >>>>> the >>>>>> ones they don't like? We can't know that yet. That's something >>>>>> we >>>>> expect >>>>>> you guys and your players to figure out. >>>>>> >>>>>> I will hazard a guess that raising the player count well above 6 >>> would >>>> be >>>>>> detrimental the experience. There ratio of humans to bots would >>>>>> be >>> off >>>>> and >>>>>> the human defending team would not have enough challenge. (As an >>>> extreme >>>>>> example: imagine a 32-player server where everybody is defending >>>>>> an >>>> there >>>>>> are no bots.) Exactly how far it can be raised above 6 without >>> totally >>>>>> breaking the game is speculation of course. I think a smart >>>>>> server operator will start out with the server configured >>>>>> relatively >>> vanilla, >>>>> and >>>>>> then watch how the game unfolds and listen to their players, and >> try >>> to >>>>>> make smart decisions about which areas to experiment, rather than >>>>> assuming >>>>>> the same sorts of adjustments your community prefers in PvP will >>>>>> automatically apply to this mode. A fun co-op mode with more >>>>>> than >>> six >>>>>> players is likely to require entirely new missions. (The mission >>>> decides >>>>>> the pattern of enemy robots that come at you.) We have >> purposefully >>>> made >>>>>> it easy for players to create their own missions. (It's a lot >> easier >>>>> than >>>>>> creating a whole new map!) But if you play with more than six >>> players, >>>>>> with the missions we've made, I think the balance will be way off. >>>>>> >>>>>> - Fletch >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto: >>>>>> hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Saint K. >>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2012 4:51 AM >>>>>> To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list >>>>>> Subject: Re: [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions >>>>>> >>>>>> Will we be able to restrict a MvM server to people in the >> steamgroup >>>>> only, >>>>>> like in L4D2? >>>>>> >>>>>> Saint K. >>>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>>> From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [ >>>>>> hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Fletcher Dunn [ >>>>>> fletch...@valvesoftware.com] >>>>>> Sent: 14 August 2012 08:52 >>>>>> To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list; Half-Life >>> dedicated >>>>>> Win32 server mailing list (h...@list.valvesoftware.com) >>>>>> Subject: Re: [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions >>>>>> >>>>>> MvM matchmaking will be restricted to 6 players at launch. >>>>>> >>>>>> The matchmaking also supports joining games in progress to fill >>>>>> an >>>> empty >>>>>> slot, in which case of course the current map will not be changed. >>>>>> >>>>>> From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto: >>>>>> hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Agro >>>>>> Sent: Monday, August 13, 2012 11:40 PM >>>>>> To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list >>>>>> Subject: Re: [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions >>>>>> >>>>>> Is MvM matchmaking going to be limited to 6 players or was the "6 >>>> players >>>>>> join, map changes" logic just an indicator of server behavior to >>>> expect? >>>>>> ----- Reply message ----- >>>>>> From: "Fletcher Dunn" <fletch...@valvesoftware.com<mailto: >>>>>> fletch...@valvesoftware.com>> >>>>>> To: "Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list ( >>>>>> hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com<mailto: >>>>> hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com>)" >>>>>> <hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com<mailto: >>>>>> hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com>>, "Half-Life dedicated Win32 >>> server >>>>>> mailing list (h...@list.valvesoftware.com<mailto: >>>>>> h...@list.valvesoftware.com>)" <h...@list.valvesoftware.com >> <mailto: >>>>>> h...@list.valvesoftware.com>> >>>>>> Subject: [hlds] TF MvM hosting questions >>>>>> Date: Tue, Aug 14, 2012 06:39 >>>>>> >>>>>> Here are some answers to questions regarding hosting MvM servers: >>>>>> >>>>>> * Players can join your server through any means they can join >>>>>> PvP >>>> games: >>>>>> the server browser, ad hoc joins, or the new matchmaking system >>>>> (quickplay >>>>>> beta). >>>>>> * To accept matchmaking traffic, you must select which sort of >>> traffic >>>>> you >>>>>> want. (Regular PvP traffic or MvM traffic.) Set >>>>>> "tf_mm_servermode >>> 2" >>>> to >>>>>> be placed in the MvM pool. >>>>>> * For MvM matchmaking, if 6 players are sent to your server to >> start >>> a >>>>> new >>>>>> game, it will switch to whatever map the players selected. >>>>>> * You will need a TF gameserver account to accept matchmaking >>> traffic. >>>>>> * You can switch the server in and out of any matchmaking mode >>>>>> pool >>> or >>>>>> back to any regular game mode at any time. >>>>>> * The CPU usage for a 6 player MvM game is about the same as for >>>>>> a >>>>> regular >>>>>> TF server. (Yep, this mode requires significantly more CPU >>>>>> cycles >>> per >>>>>> player than the PvP mode, that's an unfortunate fact.) >>>>>> >>>>>> Given the surge of players that comes with any major release, and >> the >>>>>> player / server ratio of this game mode, the demand for MvM >>>>>> servers >>>> will >>>>>> probably be high. We expect that a large number of players will >> want >>>> to >>>>>> try out the new mode, so we will be converting most of our >>>>>> servers >> to >>>>> host >>>>>> MvM, and then adjust the allocation based on what players are >>> playing. >>>>>> I, for one, DO NOT welcome our new robot overlords! >>>>>> >>>>>> - Fletch >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >>> archives, >>>>>> please visit: >>>>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >>> archives, >>>>>> please visit: >>>>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linu >>>>>> x >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >> archives, >>>>> please visit: >>>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >>>> archives, please visit: >>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >>> archives, please visit: >>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >> archives, please visit: >> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux >> > _______________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please > visit: > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux _______________________________________________ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux _______________________________________________ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
