Address assignment must be a separate protocol so that it is not tied
to one specific routing protocol. OTOH it can (and IMO should) make
use of hints from the routing protocols at to where the uplinks are
and how close they are in selecting among available addresses. For
IPv4 where DHCP likes to see one address only, supporting legacy hosts
is a harder problem.
Any extension mean that accomodation have to be made for legacy hosts.
Curtis
In message
<16d60f43ca0b724f8052d7e9323565d7243f7eb...@eusaacms0715.eamcs.ericsson.se>
Samita Chakrabarti writes:
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Thanks Hemant for the information from V6ops discussion on zospf prefix del=
egation.
In my humble view:
- Prefix assignment should be independent from a routing protocol
- Binding prefix-assignment to a routing protocol creates the problem of sy=
nchronization as you pointed out and also it limits the user to a single ro=
uting protocol for the network. I think the users/operators should have fle=
xibility to choose a routing protocol for the services they offer today and=
in future.
I'd really like to see IPv6 PD solution for the home network for network st=
ability after a power outage or bringing up a new set of network.
We have gone through similar debate in RPL development timeframe and finall=
y as far as I know RPL made the prefix configuration optional.
If someone thinks that a new version of ospfv3 will introduce prefix assign=
ment as a optional feature for a particular application/environment where i=
t might work perfectly - I am okay with that. It is difficult for me to thi=
nk OSPFv3 being the default choice to configure ip-addresses in a home netw=
ork.
In future, home network will grow further - I expect that there will be tw=
o kinds of users at home - 1) tech-challenged users who like plug-n-play 2=
) tech-savvy users running business or running multi-level networks at home=
for convenience and pleasure or whatever reasons. So it'll be a combinatio=
n of big and small ip-enabled devices and lots of them...
Regards,
-Samita
________________________________
From: homenet-boun...@ietf.org [mailto:homenet-boun...@ietf.org] On Behalf =
Of Hemant Singh (shemant)
Sent: Friday, October 21, 2011 5:18 PM
To: Howard, Lee; Samita Chakrabarti; homenet@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [homenet] routing requirements
Note the IETF IPv6 CE router specifies use of the ULA in the home to keep t=
he home network independent of the SP network. This way my computer at hom=
e can still print to the printer even when my SP IPv6 network is down. We =
have said this multiple time in v6ops during development of the IPv6 CE rou=
ter RFC 6204. I don't have the time to read the copious emails of homenet,=
but seeing some emails here and there I see homenet regressing on issues t=
hat are closed in the v6ops IPv6 CE router document development. Examples =
of issues homenet is regressing on is ND Proxy and use of zospf for prefix =
delegation in the LAN. There was only one cell phone vendor who was askin=
g us for ND Proxy with a single /64 PD delegated to the phone. We convinc=
ed the vendor at the Prague IETF to abandon that idea because such a /64 wo=
uld need RA Proxy in the CE router and RA Proxy is not defined is any RFC. =
Thus the vendor agreed and decided to go with DHCPv6 PD of RC 3633. That =
is why ND Proxy was removed from the cpe rtr bis document.
Zospf was also closed in v6ops that it's not possible to use for prefix del=
egation in the LAN. Here is an email to v6ops on closure on ospf for pref=
ix delegation.
Hemant
---- begin snip ------------
From: Lorenzo Colitti [mailto:lore...@google.com]<mailto:[mailto:lorenzo@go=
ogle.com]>
Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 1:26 PM
To: Hemant Singh (shemant)
Cc: IPv6 Operations
Subject: Re: [v6ops] default LAN routing protocol for IPv6 CE router
>Can such a default be extensible to exchange different types of informatio=
n than just reachability? For example, can it propagate information such as=
"this is a guest network and this is an internal network" or "this is a pr=
efix that I have tentatively >assigned but do not own yet"? If not, then pe=
rhaps something more flexible like IS-IS would be better.
Not possible because the proposal is not workable. Someone brought up usi=
ng OSPFv3 for use in prefix delegation in the home LAN to our IETF CPE rout=
er design team. See the questions I asked followed by the person's reply a=
nd my responses back to show no routing protocol can be used to delegate pr=
efixes in the LAN.
I asked, HS: How do you know OSPF has converged before responding to DHCPv6=
PD requests?
Reply: The CE router SHOULD wait until two sequential link-state advertisem=
ents have no link state changes before delegating any prefixes. This allo=
ws time for OSPF to converge, and for the router to build a topology map.
Seeing the above reply, I made my comment:
HS: Still does not work. After OSPF converges, what happens if the user ch=
anges the network such as unplugging a router and moving the router?
Reply: The router has a link state table-when it changes, you go through di=
scovery again and issue a Reconfigure where appropriate.
HS: There is a network bridge between two routers and the bridge does not =
have any means to report link-up or down. Further, what if a network inte=
rface of a router is flapping all the time and thus basing any algorithm o=
n OSPF convergence breaks down. The flapping interface problem becomes wo=
rse if one has a cyclic network. Your proposal still does not work.
Hemant
------ end snip ---------
From: homenet-boun...@ietf.org<mailto:homenet-boun...@ietf.org> [mailto:hom=
enet-boun...@ietf.org]<mailto:[mailto:homenet-boun...@ietf.org]> On Behalf =
Of Howard, Lee
Sent: Friday, October 21, 2011 5:26 PM
To: Samita Chakrabarti; homenet@ietf.org<mailto:homenet@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [homenet] routing requirements
Can you describe some scenarios which would cause a prefix to change, in wh=
ich applications break in ways that are unacceptable? All of the ones I ca=
n think of would be cases where I would expect a session to drop, but I'm s=
ure that's a lack of creativity on my part.
Lee
From: Samita Chakrabarti [mailto:samita.chakraba...@ericsson.com]<mailto:[m=
ailto:samita.chakraba...@ericsson.com]>
Sent: Friday, October 21, 2011 5:08 PM
To: Howard, Lee; homenet@ietf.org<mailto:homenet@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: routing requirements
Hello Howard,
Thank you very much for the summary of messages.
A comment on item 12:
12. Prefix stability?
SC> I expect that 'Prefix Stability' is a requirement at home or small off=
ices. Without prefix stability some of the applications will suddenly break=
when the old prefix expires and the new prefix becomes effective.
And question to the wg:
8. Support for multiple upstream networks is a requirement.
g. Source address selection is out of scope. And should be solved by =
rfc3484, with longest prefix match (whether ULA or walled garden). Choosin=
g which address to use to look up the destination address is out of scope.
SC> Is the expectation from homenet wg that all hosts will implement RFC 34=
84 ?
Do the current home IPv6 host products support RFC 3484 ? [ I don't think s=
o ] So the host implementation change should be required if a host has to =
support multiple prefixes or I might be missing something?
Thanks,
-Samita
________________________________
From: homenet-boun...@ietf.org<mailto:homenet-boun...@ietf.org> [mailto:hom=
enet-boun...@ietf.org]<mailto:[mailto:homenet-boun...@ietf.org]> On Behalf =
Of Howard, Lee
Sent: Friday, October 21, 2011 11:32 AM
To: homenet@ietf.org<mailto:homenet@ietf.org>
Subject: [homenet] routing requirements
I've caught up on some 300 messages about routing. Here are the requiremen=
ts I've gleaned. Question marks are unclear to me, please help.
1. Homenet router requirements
2. When evaluating a solution, discuss whether it provides for:
3. Reachability between all nodes in the home network.
a. Links may be Ethernet, WiFi, MoCA, or any other; test all solution=
s against mutliple L2 types.
4. Border detection.
a. Border may be upstream ISP, or may be a device that is a gateway t=
o SmartGrid devices, e.g. a controller that speaks RPL to 802.15.4 and foo =
to home net. Or there may be no border, if no external connection has been=
established.
b. Must be able to find "up" (a path to the Internet), but must not be=
dependent on "up" (Internet connectivity) existing for intra-home reachabi=
lity.
c. May be discovered by routing protocol, or other means.
5. Robust to routers being moved/added/removed/renumbered
a. Convergence time a few minutes or less.
6. No configuration required.
a. We might tolerate? a single password being entered on each device.=
Discuss.
7. Best-path is a non-requirement.
8. Support for multiple upstream networks is a requirement.
a. Including wireless offload, video-only, and split-tunnel VPN scena=
rios.
b. With separate routers to each. Not multihomed off the same router.
c. Prefix delegated from all ISPs (upstreams).
d. ISP A is default.
e. With only traffic destined to ISP B's prefix using that link.
f. With a backup default to ISP B, if desired. What is default condi=
tion?
g. Source address selection is out of scope. And should be solved by =
rfc3484, with longest prefix match (whether ULA or walled garden). Choosin=
g which address to use to look up the destination address is out of scope.
9. Cannot assume hierarchical prefix delegation in the home (at least,=
not unless the WG develops such a solution).
10. A host with mutliple upstream paths to the same destination should be =
able to use another in case on fails.
11. Prevent looping.
12. Prefix stability?
13. Lightweight (cheap) implementation.
Let me know if I've missed, or mistated, anything.
Lee
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<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D738232401-22102011></SPAN><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#00=
00ff=20
size=3D2>Thanks Hemant for the information <SPAN=20
class=3D738232401-22102011>from=20
</SPAN>V6ops discussion on zospf prefix delegation=
.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT><FONT color=3D#0000ff><FONT size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D738232401-22102011></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT><SPAN=20
class=3D738232401-22102011></SPAN><FONT face=3DArial><FONT color=3D#0000ff>=
<FONT=20
size=3D2>I<SPAN class=3D738232401-22102011>n my humble=20
view:</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT><FONT color=3D#0000ff><FONT size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D738232401-22102011></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT><SPAN=20
class=3D738232401-22102011></SPAN><FONT face=3DArial><FONT color=3D#0000ff>=
<FONT=20
size=3D2> <SPAN class=3D738232401-22102011>- Prefix assignment should=
=20
be independent from a routing=20
protocol</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT><FONT color=3D#0000ff><FONT size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D738232401-22102011></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT><SPAN=20
class=3D738232401-22102011></SPAN><FONT face=3DArial><FONT color=3D#0000ff>=
<FONT=20
size=3D2>-<SPAN class=3D738232401-22102011> Binding prefix-assignment to a =
routing=20
protocol creates the problem of synchronization as you pointed out and also=
it=20
limits the user to a single routing protocol for the network. I think the=20
users/operators should have flexibility to choose a routing protocol for th=
e=20
services they offer today and in future.</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial><FONT color=3D#0000ff><FONT size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D738232401-22102011></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial><FONT color=3D#0000ff><FONT size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D738232401-22102011>I'd really like to see IPv6 PD solution for the =
home=20
network for network stability after a power outage or bringing up a new set=
of=20
network.</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial><FONT color=3D#0000ff><FONT size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D738232401-22102011>We have gone through similar debate in RPL devel=
opment=20
timeframe and finally as far as I know RPL made the prefix configuration=20
optional.</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial><FONT color=3D#0000ff><FONT size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D738232401-22102011></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial><FONT color=3D#0000ff><FONT size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D738232401-22102011>If someone thinks that a new version of ospfv3 w=
ill=20
introduce prefix assignment as a optional feature for a particular=20
application/environment where it might work perfectly - I am okay with that=
. It=20
is difficult for me to think OSPFv3 being the default choice to configure=20
ip-addresses in a home network. </SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial><FONT color=3D#0000ff><FONT size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D738232401-22102011>In future, home network will grow further =
- I=20
expect that there will be two kinds of users at home - 1) tech-challe=
nged=20
users who like plug-n-play 2) tech-savvy users running business or running=
=20
multi-level networks at home for convenience and pleasure or whatever reaso=
ns.=20
So it'll be a combination of big and small ip-enabled devices and lots of=20
them...</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial><FONT color=3D#0000ff><FONT size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D738232401-22102011></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial><FONT color=3D#0000ff><FONT size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D738232401-22102011>Regards,</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial><FONT color=3D#0000ff><FONT size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D738232401-22102011>-Samita</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft>
<HR tabIndex=3D-1>
<FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> homenet-boun...@ietf.org=20
[mailto:homenet-boun...@ietf.org] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Hemant Singh=20
(shemant)<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, October 21, 2011 5:18 PM<BR><B>To:</B> Ho=
ward,=20
Lee; Samita Chakrabarti; homenet@ietf.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [homenet]=
=20
routing requirements<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=3DWordSection1>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d">Note the IETF IPv6 CE r=
outer=20
specifies use of the ULA in the home to keep the home network independent o=
f the=20
SP network. This way my computer at home can still print to the print=
er=20
even when my SP IPv6 network is down. We have said this multiple time=
in=20
v6ops during development of the IPv6 CE router RFC 6204. I don’=
t have the=20
time to read the copious emails of homenet, but seeing some emails here and=
=20
there I see homenet regressing on issues that are closed in the v6ops IPv6 =
CE=20
router document development. Examples of issues homenet is regressing=
on=20
is ND Proxy and use of zospf for prefix delegation in the LAN. =
There=20
was only one cell phone vendor who was asking us for ND Proxy with a single=
/64=20
PD delegated to the phone. We convinced the vendor at the Pragu=
e=20
IETF to abandon that idea because such a /64 would need RA Proxy in the CE=
=20
router and RA Proxy is not defined is any RFC. Thus the vendor agreed=
and=20
decided to go with DHCPv6 PD of RC 3633. That is why ND Proxy was rem=
oved=20
from the cpe rtr bis document. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN=
></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d">Zospf was also closed i=
n v6ops=20
that it’s not possible to use for prefix delegation in the LAN.  =
; Here=20
is an email to v6ops on closure on ospf for prefix delegation. =20
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN=
></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d">Hemant<o:p></o:p></SPAN=
></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN=
></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d">---- begin snip=20
------------<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN=
></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><B><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'">From:</SPAN><=
/B><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'"> Lorenzo Coli=
tti <A=20
href=3D"mailto:[mailto:lore...@google.com]";>[mailto:lore...@google.com]</A>=
=20
<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, July 27, 2011 1:26 PM<BR><B>To:</B> Hemant Sing=
h=20
(shemant)<BR><B>Cc:</B> IPv6 Operations<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [v6ops] defa=
ult=20
LAN routing protocol for IPv6 CE router<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'"><o:p>&nbs=
p;</o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d">></SPAN>Can such a d=
efault be=20
extensible to exchange different types of information than just reachabilit=
y?=20
For example, can it propagate information such as "this is a guest network =
and=20
this is an internal network" or "this is a prefix that I have tentatively <=
SPAN=20
style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d">></SPAN>assigned but do not own yet"? If not, t=
hen=20
perhaps something more flexible like IS-IS would be better.<SPAN=20
style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN=
></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d">Not possible because th=
e=20
proposal is not workable. Someone brought up using OSPFv3 for u=
se in=20
prefix delegation in the home LAN to our IETF CPE router design team. =
See=20
the questions I asked followed by the person’s reply and my responses=
back to=20
show no routing protocol can be used to delegate prefixes in the LAN.=20
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN=
></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d">I asked, HS: How do you=
know=20
OSPF has converged before responding to DHCPv6 PD=20
requests?<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN=
></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d">Reply: The CE router SH=
OULD wait=20
until two sequential link-state advertisements have no link state cha=
nges=20
before delegating any prefixes. This allows time for OSPF to converge=
, and=20
for the router to build a topology map.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN=
></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d">Seeing the above reply,=
I made=20
my comment:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN=
></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d">HS: Still does not work=
. =20
After OSPF converges, what happens if the user changes the network such &nb=
sp;as=20
unplugging a router and moving the router?<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN=
></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d">Reply: The router has a=
link=20
state table—when it changes, you go through discovery again and issue=
a=20
Reconfigure where appropriate. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN=
></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d">HS: There is a ne=
twork=20
bridge between two routers and the bridge does not have any means to report=
=20
link-up or down. Further, what if a network interface of a rout=
er is=20
flapping all the time and thus basing any algorithm on OSPF convergen=
ce=20
breaks down. The flapping interface problem becomes worse if on=
e has=20
a cyclic network. Your proposal still does not work. =20
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN=
></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d">Hemant<o:p></o:p></SPAN=
></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN=
></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN=
></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d">------ end snip=20
---------<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN=
></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN=
></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN=
></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN=
></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN=
></P>
<DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df=
1pt solid; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: medium non=
e; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">
<P class=3DMsoNormal><B><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'">From:</SPAN><=
/B><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'"> <A=20
href=3D"mailto:homenet-boun...@ietf.org";>homenet-boun...@ietf.org</A> <A=20
href=3D"mailto:[mailto:homenet-boun...@ietf.org]";>[mailto:homenet-bounces@i=
etf.org]</A>=20
<B>On Behalf Of </B>Howard, Lee<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, October 21, 2011 5:=
26=20
PM<BR><B>To:</B> Samita Chakrabarti; <A=20
href=3D"mailto:homenet@ietf.org";>homenet@ietf.org</A><BR><B>Subject:</B> Re=
:=20
[homenet] routing requirements<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','ser=
if'">Can=20
you describe some scenarios which would cause a prefix to change, in which=
=20
applications break in ways that are unacceptable? All of the ones I c=
an=20
think of would be cases where I would expect a session to drop, but I’=
;m sure=20
that’s a lack of creativity on my part.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','ser=
if'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','ser=
if'">Lee<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','ser=
if'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium =
none; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: blue 1.5pt solid=
; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">
<DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df=
1pt solid; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: medium non=
e; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">
<P class=3DMsoNormal><B><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'">From:</SPAN><=
/B><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'"> Samita Chakr=
abarti=20
<A=20
href=3D"mailto:[mailto:samita.chakraba...@ericsson.com]";>[mailto:samita.cha=
kraba...@ericsson.com]</A>=20
<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, October 21, 2011 5:08 PM<BR><B>To:</B> Howard, Lee=
; <A=20
href=3D"mailto:homenet@ietf.org";>homenet@ietf.org</A><BR><B>Subject:</B> RE=
:=20
routing requirements<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">H=
ello=20
Howard,</SPAN><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'"><o:p></o:=
p></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'"> <o:=
p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">T=
hank=20
you very much for the summary of messages.</SPAN><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'"><o:p></o:=
p></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'"> <o:=
p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">A=
=20
comment on item 12:</SPAN><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'"><o:p></o:=
p></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','ser=
if'">12.</SPAN><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 7pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','seri=
f'"> =20
</SPAN><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','ser=
if'">Prefix=20
stability? </SPAN><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'"><o:p></o:=
p></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'"> <o:=
p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">S=
C> =20
I expect that 'Prefix Stability' is a requirement at home or small offices.=
=20
Without prefix stability some of the applications will suddenly break when =
the=20
old prefix expires and the new prefix becomes effective.</SPAN><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'"><o:p></o:=
p></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'"> <o:=
p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">A=
nd=20
question to the wg:</SPAN><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'"><o:p></o:=
p></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoListParagraph=20
style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 1in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in"> <o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D"TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in"><SPAN=20
style=3D"COLOR: blue">8.</SPAN><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 7pt; COLOR: blue; LINE-HEIGHT: 115%"> =
=20
</SPAN><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: blue">Support for multiple upstream networks i=
s a=20
requirement.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 1in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in=
"><SPAN=20
style=3D"COLOR: blue">g.</SPAN><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 7pt; COLOR: blue; LINE-HEIGHT: 115%"> =
=20
</SPAN><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: blue">Source address selection is out of scope=
. =20
And should be solved by rfc3484, with longest prefix match (whether ULA or=
=20
walled garden). Choosing which address to use to look up the destinat=
ion=20
address is out of scope.</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=3DMsoListParagraph=20
style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 1in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in"> <o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 1in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in=
"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; LINE-HEIGHT: 115%; FONT-FAMILY: 'Ari=
al','sans-serif'">SC>=20
Is the expectation from homenet wg that all hosts will implement RFC 3484=20
?</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 1in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in=
"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; LINE-HEIGHT: 115%; FONT-FAMILY: 'Ari=
al','sans-serif'">Do=20
the current home IPv6 host products support RFC 3484 ? [ I don't think so=20
] So the host implementation change should be required if a=
host=20
has to support multiple prefixes or I might be missing=20
something?</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=3DMsoListParagraph=20
style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 1in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in"> <o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=3DMsoListParagraph=20
style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 1in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in"> <o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 1in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in=
"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; LINE-HEIGHT: 115%; FONT-FAMILY: 'Ari=
al','sans-serif'">Thanks,</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 1in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in=
"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; LINE-HEIGHT: 115%; FONT-FAMILY: 'Ari=
al','sans-serif'">-Samita</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=3DMsoListParagraph=20
style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 1in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in"> <o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=3DMsoListParagraph=20
style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 1in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in"> <o:p></o:p></P>
<DIV class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=3Dcenter><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'">
<HR align=3Dcenter width=3D"100%" SIZE=3D2>
</SPAN></DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"><B><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'">From:</SPAN><=
/B><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'"> <A=20
href=3D"mailto:homenet-boun...@ietf.org";>homenet-boun...@ietf.org</A> <A=20
href=3D"mailto:[mailto:homenet-boun...@ietf.org]";>[mailto:homenet-bounces@i=
etf.org]</A>=20
<B>On Behalf Of </B>Howard, Lee<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, October 21, 2011 11=
:32=20
AM<BR><B>To:</B> <A=20
href=3D"mailto:homenet@ietf.org";>homenet@ietf.org</A><BR><B>Subject:</B> [h=
omenet]=20
routing requirements</SPAN><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'"><o:p></o:=
p></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoPlainText>I've caught up on some 300 messages about routing.&=
nbsp;=20
Here are the requirements I've gleaned. Question marks are unclear to=
me,=20
please help.<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></P>
<P class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D"TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in">1.<SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 7pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 115%"> =
=20
</SPAN>Homenet router requirements<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D"TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in">2.<SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 7pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 115%"> =
=20
</SPAN>When evaluating a solution, discuss whether it provides=20
for:<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D"TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in">3.<SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 7pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 115%"> =
=20
</SPAN>Reachability between all nodes in the home network.<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 1in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in=
">a.<SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 7pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 115%"> &=
nbsp;=20
</SPAN>Links may be Ethernet, WiFi, MoCA, or any other; test all solutions=
=20
against mutliple L2 types.<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D"TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in">4.<SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 7pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 115%"> =
=20
</SPAN>Border detection. <o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 1in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in=
">a.<SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 7pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 115%"> &=
nbsp;=20
</SPAN>Border may be upstream ISP, or may be a device that is a gateway to=
=20
SmartGrid devices, e.g. a controller that speaks RPL to 802.15.4 and <I>foo=
</I>=20
to home net. Or there may be no border, if no external connection has=
been=20
established. <o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 1in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in=
">b.<SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 7pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 115%"> =
=20
</SPAN>Must be able to find “up” (a path to the Internet), but =
must not be=20
dependent on “up” (Internet connectivity) existing for intra-ho=
me=20
reachability.<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 1in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in=
">c.<SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 7pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 115%"> &=
nbsp;=20
</SPAN>May be discovered by routing protocol, or other means.<o:p></o:p></P=
>
<P class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D"TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in">5.<SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 7pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 115%"> =
=20
</SPAN>Robust to routers being moved/added/removed/renumbered<o:p></o:p></P=
>
<P class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 1in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in=
">a.<SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 7pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 115%"> &=
nbsp;=20
</SPAN>Convergence time a few minutes or less.<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D"TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in">6.<SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 7pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 115%"> =
=20
</SPAN>No configuration required.<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 1in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in=
">a.<SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 7pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 115%"> &=
nbsp;=20
</SPAN>We might tolerate? a single password being entered on each device.&n=
bsp;=20
Discuss.<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D"TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in">7.<SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 7pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 115%"> =
=20
</SPAN>Best-path is a non-requirement.<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D"TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in">8.<SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 7pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 115%"> =
=20
</SPAN>Support for multiple upstream networks is a requirement.<o:p></o:p><=
/P>
<P class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 1in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in=
">a.<SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 7pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 115%"> &=
nbsp;=20
</SPAN>Including wireless offload, video-only, and split-tunnel VPN=20
scenarios. <o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 1in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in=
">b.<SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 7pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 115%"> =
=20
</SPAN>With separate routers to each. Not multihomed off the same=20
router.<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 1in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in=
">c.<SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 7pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 115%"> &=
nbsp;=20
</SPAN>Prefix delegated from all ISPs (upstreams).<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 1in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in=
">d.<SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 7pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 115%"> =
=20
</SPAN>ISP A is default.<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 1in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in=
">e.<SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 7pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 115%"> &=
nbsp;=20
</SPAN>With only traffic destined to ISP B’s prefix using that=20
link.<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 1in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in=
">f.<SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 7pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 115%"> &=
nbsp;=20
</SPAN>With a backup default to ISP B, if desired. What is default=20
condition?<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 1in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in=
">g.<SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 7pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 115%"> =
=20
</SPAN>Source address selection is out of scope. And should be solved=
by=20
rfc3484, with longest prefix match (whether ULA or walled garden). =20
Choosing which address to use to look up the destination address is out of=
=20
scope.<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D"TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in">9.<SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 7pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 115%"> =
=20
</SPAN>Cannot assume hierarchical prefix delegation in the home (at least, =
not=20
unless the WG develops such a solution).<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D"TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in">10.<SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 7pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 115%"> </SPAN>A host with mutli=
ple=20
upstream paths to the same destination should be able to use another in cas=
e on=20
fails. <o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D"TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in">11.<SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 7pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 115%"> </SPAN>Prevent=20
looping.<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D"TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in">12.<SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 7pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 115%"> </SPAN>Prefix stability?=
=20
<o:p></o:p></P>
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<P class=3DMsoPlainText>Lee<o:p></o:p></P>
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