To clarify it: gulden means golden. There was also the "dukat", finally of 3,49 grs gold at 986/1000. The name "ducat" or "ducatus" deriving from "duce" or "doge" or "duke" as first produced by Duke Dandolo in Venice in the late 13th century. ===========================================================
-----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Baumgart Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2004 3:26 AM To: The Horn List Subject: Re: [Hornlist] Slide Lubricants Actually, they were known as "Joachimsthaler guldengroschen," with "guldengroschen" referring to the type of coin (enough silver's worth of groschen to be worth a gold gulden). St. Joachim's valley was an early 16th century silver boom area, which bode well for the count when he was allowed to mint coins. The Joachimsthaler guldengroschen were not the first such coins, however, although they were the most widely produced and circulated, becoming the standard silver coin in Europe. In 1486, Duke Sigismund of Tyrol coined guldengroschen bearing his portrait, but they weren't widely accepted or minted in the vast quantities as the Joachimsthaler guldengroschen. Had they been, instead of dollars, we'd probably be paying for our slide lubricants with "ziggies." John Baumgart ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hans" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'The Horn List'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2004 3:33 AM Subject: RE: [Hornlist] Re: Slide Lubricants "cents" is a similar corruption as "dollar". Somebody knows the origin of "dollar" ? It was at "Joachimsthal" in German cultivated East Bohemia, where Count Schlick got the right to mint his own silver coins (also doubles, half & quarters) 1520. They were named according to the place "Joachimsthaler" from the St.Joachim valley (German = tal). The name was reduced to "thaler" later, just for simplicity. And this became dollar, dollar, taler etc. Cent is 1/100th of a certain (main) coin. "Centesimo" or "centime" would be appropriate, but again simplified to "cent". And in Europe we got the "Euro" now, which has not a meaning at all. It is like "artificial honey". Since gold standard was abandoned, money has just a hypothetical value. "Pfennig" was a separate coin, a basic coin itself as was the old Russian "kopek" or "lira" or "heller" or "penny" (the English word for Pfennig). They had not adopted the metric (1/100) system then anyway. ========================================================= _______________________________________________ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hans.pizka%40t-online.de _______________________________________________ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
