So, what exactly was Conn's "boo-boo"? Just the use of German Silver, or the whole megillah?
Dave Weiner Brass Arts Unlimited -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: horn@music.memphis.edu Sent: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 2:20 pm Subject: [Hornlist] Re: C.F. Schmidt History Dave, no need for puzzles here. The whole thing is a clear as the view from Mt. Washington, assuming it's not snowing. Conn copied the Kruspe Horner Model and experimented with the tapers with the assistance of professionals at the time. Wrap and general dimensions got copied verbatim. Valves were already being produced by them and they used their "American" size tubing for the cylindrical portions to give it a .468 bore. Kruspe bores were metric, and a few thousandths difference is no big deal. The input from the players was that the Schmidt (6D) pipe played better than the Kruspe copy pipe, so they went with that. The two pipes are not so different to really change much, as I mentioned before, as they are both long, F horn tapers. As to sound, I think they used what was known then in America as "German Silver." As we all know, this alloy contains no silver at all and is copper/nickel/zinc in composition. The trade name these days is "nickel silver." That's what they thought the Kruspe was so that's what they ordered from Anaconda or whomever at the time. Walter's research, which you have so accurately detailed, showed that the pre-war Kruspe was a nickel-bronze. Bob Fitzmorris, who worked for Anacaonda and helped Walter immensely through the years, told Walter that in Germany, alloys had different names than here, and they still do. What we call "red brass" or Alloy 230, they call "Goldmessing" which translates as "gold brass." Now, how many horn players here call "yellow or cartridge brass," or Alloy 260, "gold brass" which in Germany is know as "messing." So, in Germany in the 1930's, I'm sure there were various copper-nickel alloys with various names. To complicate it, there was no international numbering standard as there is today. To make a long story short, the closest alloy that Anaconda makes now to the Kruspe assay is nickel bronze. No zinc, as in nickel "German" silver, but with a small tin content and a touch of lead. I have no idea what this is called in Germany, but the German maker(s) who will make a NS horn today use the the nickel silver alloy 752, same as Conn, Holton, Yamaha, etc. Computer analysis and well trained human ears can tell a difference in the sounds of nickel silver and nickel bronze bell flares. Walter was after the "Kruspe" sound and so were other players at the time, including myself. I use to sit in the Philly orchestra looking at Mason's, Nolan's and Glenn's Kruspes and wondering why they had a different patina than the Conn in my lap. Walter figured it out some years later. There are over 400 copper alloys available used for just about every commercial use imaginable. More info at _www.copper.org_ (http://www.copper.org) for interested parties. My teacher, Prof. I.M. Gestopftmitscheist, in analyzing some other alloys for his new model horn, a brilliantly designed copy of the Amborg copy of the Olds copy of the Conn 6D, except he is using a leadpipe copied from a Maxtone. So far, testing has revealed that a lightly annealed, cryogenically treated, slightly corroded but recently cleaned with CLR Stained Steel bell flare has the most killing power at 500 yards whilst retaining the warmth of sound characteristic of a fine tuned Getzen two valved alto bugle so popular in the days before DCI allowed 3 valves. As you know, the Getzen was bright nickel plated, which has been so widely adopted of late by fine makers in the far east who sell primarily on e-Bay. But, alas, the professor still cannot answer my perennial question: "What if Dennis Brain had had a triple horn?" KB Kendall, I'm a little puzzled by your comparison of the Conn 8D and the Kruspe (by which I assume you mean the Horner model). If Conn copied the 8D pipe from the Schmidt, not the Kruspe, then were they trying to copy the Kruspe or the Schmidt? Even with a Schmidt-model pipe on it, would the 8D have sounded "closer" to the Kruspe if they had used a bronze rather nickel-silver? Also, I'm kind of wondering if Conn even had access to the same alloy as Kruspe? Could they have copied the Kruspe exactly, down to the alloy? I recall a conversation I had with Walt Lawson a couple years ago about their assay of Kruspe bell metal. The first attempt yielded a strange assay, which included, among the usual elements you'd expect,?lead, about 3 percent tin, and some iron. It was only after they realized where and how on the bell they'd gotten the sample that they understood what was going on: They had used an iron file to remove a sample from the ferrule end of the bell, which included shavings from the bell, the solder, and metal from the file itself! A better sample yielded a more typical assay of a bronze. Walt told me that lead them to explore the properties of bronzes, and to find a standard alloy that closely matched the properties they were looking for. The point is that when Walt wanted a bronze, he couldn't just duplicate the assay - he had to acquire a standard alloy because that's all that was available. So if only standard alloys are generally available these days, I'm wondering if this wou ld have been the case back when Conn was making the original 8D? Dave Weiner Brass Arts Unlimited **************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music. 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