Hi Erik,
2009/11/15 Erik Krause <[email protected]>
>
>
> Sorry, it was not me who brought this discussion here. And it was Yuv
> who was "annoyed" and accused me of demanding things, which is totally
> nonsense in this case. I didn't demand anything, I expressed my
> disappointment with the politics regarding windows binaries.
>
It's not about the discussion itself or how it got here. That is completely
valid here and your criticism as such is also valid. It's more the "choice
of your words" that made me react ("self appointed leader" and so on), which
is unfair and doesn't give Yuv the credits he deserves.
>
> There was no point to bring the "If you want to have binaries, compile
> them yourself" sermon again.
I mentioned that too and it's also the risk of such a mailing list that can
easily end up in a flame war (but you know that as a moderator for another
list). My point is that I've heard a lot of complaints and only one remark
"I'm looking into it and trying to master the build" (free form quote). If
nobody acts, nothing will happen. My motivation is that if it doesn't come
to you, get it yourself. Ippei did a great job in making Hugin up-to-date
for OSX. His contributions have made Hugin on OSX a great piece of software.
He didn't complain and wait but took initiative to get that going. He is
less active lately, but when necessary he kicks in when a non-developer like
me can't solve some OSX specific issues. One thing I didn't like was that
Ippei only occasionally released svn builds (from the same argument: If you
want it then learn how to build it). That's why I started building Hugin for
OSX: to get more up-to-date builds.
I'm not a developer. I can't add new functionality. I can build, but I had
to learn that as well. Same for new windows builders.
> And this "Contribute something before
> criticizing" sermon is plainly silly and ignorant.
>
>
I agree with you. Next to that I know that you did contribute a lot over the
years, for Hugin windows users most directly via your droplets, but not only
to Hugin. You also deserve credits for that.
> Why do you guys make it so hard for someone to simply test or recommend
> hugin? Why this raised forefinger and this teacher's attitude all the
> time about what open source software is and what not? Don't you see that
> this sounds arrogant? Even worse: It might sound as if hugin developers
> don't want and don't like their users.
>
>
This statement is not correct.
First of all: the hugin project consists of a lot of testing and a lot of
bugs are reported in this community. Nobody gets flamed for reporting bugs
or for testing. Again: it's how it is stated. Rick (Rueike) is a consistent
windows tester and therefore also bug reporter but he doesn't get flamed.
He's appreciated for doing this testing.
W.r.t. "not liking their users":
It's off course nonsense to say that the "contributors" only do it for the
community and to serve the world, but most of them are really service
minded: Solving bugs on platforms that they do not even use, building
functionality that is requested but which might not be usefull to
themselves, building bundles/packages/rpms which take extra time from them
but is not beneficial for themselves.
It is logical that "developers" do react, like I do now, when they put free
time in a project like this that would have resulted in quite some money if
the hours were spent on consultancy basis. We are not in for the money and
neither to be honoured. But it's not fair to accuse Yuv from stopping the
progress of Hugin where he contributed so much (and yes: I know that he's
black-and-white in his sometimes very sharp arguments. I do not always agree
or approve either).
Just the fact that I react now, even though windows is the very least of my
concerns, comes from involvement with this project. And that's valid for
most contributors.
>
> But most windows users (me included) won't go through the hardships of
> compiling hugin to supply a bug report. And if I supply bug reports I
> want to do it for a software "as is", not for something where I don't
> know whether I introduced the bugs myself...
>
>
I fully understand that "most windows users won't go through the hardships
of compiling hugin.." as that's the same on all platforms, also for me. I
build Hugin, Avidemux, ImageFuser, KImageFuser and Panini, but almost all of
my software comes from simply downloading it as an end user (like VLC,
Firefox, Burn, Gimp, Handbrake, OpenOffice, Chicken of the VNC and many
more).
So far, the biggest platform, which windows is without question, delivered
only very few builders (thank you guys) where it should have delivered the
biggest amount of builders.
Just the simple fact that nobody takes the initiative to come forward as
volunteer is disappointing.
Again: thanks to those who already did a great job in building windows
binaries. It's just that there are obviously not enough builders.
regards,
Harry
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