Timothy, >From the viewpoint of a developer who has worked at both large and medium development shops, with access to machines as varied as the IS2000, MP3000, 3090->z9 bc, I have to say that you are missing the point of the cost comparison between the MP3000 and the z9 bc (which by the way is a great box, just priced outside of small companies).
You criticize the use of internal DASD, but that was only one of the great features of the MP3k that made it attractive for small shops: Advantages of the MP3k for a small (10 or less developers) 1 - Footprint - The MP3k was about 3' by 2' and stood less than 3' high. 2 - Environmentals - Didn't require raised floor, heavy AC etc. 3 - Internal DASD - One box, had everything. 4 - Power consumption - The MP3k ran on 110 VAC power. While the z800 can work w/o a raised floor, it is desirable, or else you have escon cables running across the floor. While you may not think that $50K US is a large cost, when the cost of the DASD, the weight and clearence requirements etc are factored in, the costs quickly get huge. In the MP3k was suitable for use in home or small office location while the replacements are larger, heavier, and consume far more power, making them costlier, not only to purchase, but also the operate on an ongoing basis. Wayne Driscoll Product Developer JME Software LLC NOTE: All opinions are strictly my own. <snipped, left just for tracking the thread> For comparison, according to a recent post on IBM-MAIN a z800 at ~40 MIPS hardware capacity is priced at about $30,000 on the secondary market, U.S. 2007 dollars. That's without storage, it's fair to point out. I detailed the total acquisition and licensing prices of a commercial z800 installation, with z/OS.e, WAS, and C/C++, on a recent Mainframe Blog post and estimated about $50,000 U.S. all-in/1st year for the smallest configuration. z/OS.e is well under $200 per month by my calculation. The zNALC offering is even more attractive and would clear the way to COBOL or PL/I in many circumstances, and certainly developer software licensing is possible if you qualify. DB2 z/OS is a major commitment: I think it's about $4,500 per month at 3 MSUs for commercial licensing. I didn't check CICS or IMS. Your mileage may vary. There are lots of permutations here depending on what you want. I wanted a Java plus C/C++ environment with WAS as my transaction manager and VSAM as my data store, so that's what I configured. I don't mean to be flip, but really, honestly, there's a lot of mythology circulating. I agree with the sentiment that I think Bob expressed: if IBM's doing something wrong, go get the facts and then work the problem. But claiming a z9 BC has a higher price and doesn't scale down as well as a MP3000 isn't the place to start, because I'm not going to be the only one who pulls out the prices and capacities and says, "Huh?" - - - - - Timothy Sipples IBM Consulting Enterprise Software Architect Specializing in Software Architectures Related to System z Based in Tokyo, Serving IBM Japan and IBM Asia-Pacific E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
