Rene - kudos for your comments and insights - I'm sure there are many on this list who agree completely (and some who agree mostly just to be contrary).
As for git - that is why ZIGI (https://zigi.rocks) was created for the z/OS user - it provides a native ISPF interface to the majority of the commonly used git features/functions and it is written in REXX đ Lionel B. Dyck <>< Website: https://www.lbdsoftware.com Github: https://github.com/lbdyck âWorry more about your character than your reputation. Character is what you are, reputation merely what others think you are.â - - - John Wooden -----Original Message----- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU> On Behalf Of RenĂ© Jansen Sent: Wednesday, January 5, 2022 6:56 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: ... Re: Top 8 Reasons for using Python instead of REXX for z/OS I also salute the CICS guys, who seem to have free reign to put everything in CICS that is available elsewhere. I agree that IBM should make mainframe emulators freely available, not only for universities. IBM should realize that mainframes are not unlike long distance calls; any telco that does not realize that the revenue of that is going away, is lost. The more we work on âmodernizationâ, the sooner the field will be levelled. If young employees donât want to work on 3270 tube images or JCL, maybe we should stop hiring prima donnaâs but instead disadvantaged people who want to work and learn something. Tragically, the true value of the mainframe, which is realized in all those products you call old, is not realized in those âmodernâ programming paradigms - remember the first TCP implementation for MVS ? - it ran like a dog and chewed up whole lpars while VTAM still did the work. This was of course because it was a straight port of the code for some other architecture. Moving to other tools while they are not ripe for the environment would be irrational. I donât know what happened to the budget for Swift on z/OS but I hope you see what I mean. A port of Python that is not ready will accomplish the same thing. Your prima donnaâs will complain that library X, Y or Z is still not available on the mainframe and pressure their management to go off it - I see that happen every day, while fighting performance myths and disasters caused by âmodernâ. It is undeniable that git - which I love and use every day, is much more complicated on z/OS because of EBCDIC, access methods, records and block sizes. This is the reality and we should not deny it to please people who learned to allocate a file with âtouch test.txtâ. They will get stuck without that knowledge and hate their work even more. We all have different tastes and that is one thing, another thing is when that taste is driven by commercial interests. And still another when those interests are going against the best interest of the platform. Best regards, RenĂ©. > On 5 Jan 2022, at 05:20, David Crayford <dcrayf...@gmail.com> wrote: > > ï»żOn 5/1/22 12:01 pm, Bob Bridges wrote: >> Hm. If that's true of many shops (and it sounds plausible), maybe my sneers >> at the colleges' ignorant comments are ill-founded and they may be starting >> to win their war against the mainframe. Of course, if their efforts have a >> lot of effect then surely the need for CICS will reverse the >> trend...wouldn't you think? > > I don't think the universities have got anything against the mainframe. They > don't have access to them. IBM should make mainframe emulators freely > available to all universities. Some of our best young guys have degrees in > engineering, not CS. It takes a long time to train new hires on the > mainframe. For example, JCL is arcane and generally despised by kids who have > grown up coding shell scripts. As you mentioned CICS it's worth noting that > CICS supports both Spring Boot and Node.js. They set the standard for > modernization. The open beta has a new has a new YAML file for resource > definitions that comes with a JSON schema so you can get context assist in > editors and validation in the DevOps pipeline. The CICS guys innovate and > modernize. I salute them. > > >> >> --- >> Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313 >> >> /* [On the observation that every culture has words equating >> "uncivilized" and "foreigner":] Tragic? It's sidesplitting! It's >> the only joke the Almighty ever repeats, because it never grows stale >> with use. -from _Star Beast_ by Robert A Heinlein. */ >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU> On >> Behalf Of David Crayford >> Sent: Tuesday, January 4, 2022 21:48 >> >> It's true. The company I work for has been on-boarding millennials for years >> now to replace the guys that are retiring. I work with some very smart young >> guys, some of who write systems level code. None of them use REXX unless >> it's used in a product they are working on. We're ripping and replacing >> decades old build tools written in REXX with Python because it's become >> technical debt and no one can support it. >> >> The typical millenial uses: >> >> * An IDE such as VS Code, IntelliJ, Slickedit with plugins for >> mainframe languages and to access the MVS file system. >> * They don't use TSO or the ISPF editor so there is no need for REXX >> edit macros etc. ISPF is mainly used for SDSF and submitting jobs. >> * They work in a interactive shell and use UNIX utilties. >> * Everything is stored in Git repositories. >> * They code scripts in Python, Node.js or a JVM language. >> >>> --- On 5/1/22 10:06 am, Seymour J Metz wrote: >>> That's David Crayford, not me. I have no basis to either confirm or >>> contradict. It's unfortunate if true. >>> >>> ________________________________________ >>> From: Bob Bridges [robhbrid...@gmail.com] >>> Sent: Tuesday, January 4, 2022 9:03 PM >>> >>> Shmuel, I'm interested (and perhaps a little dismayed) at your third point. >>> I've gotten the impression, from reading ads about job openings, that REXX >>> programmers aren't very thick on the ground even at IBM where you'd think >>> it'd be pretty easy to find them. But "shrinking by the day"? Where do >>> you get that? I'm not disagreeing -- I have no data -- but have you? >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: David Crayford >>> Sent: Tuesday, January 4, 2022 19:23 >>> >>> 1. IBM are too busy porting contemporary languages like Python, Golang >>> and Node.js >>> 2. No vendor will port ooRexx because there is no market for it that is >>> willing to pay support >>> 3. The pool of REXX developers is shrinking by the day and no young >>> people want to learn it unless they have to >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> - For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO >> IBM-MAIN > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send > email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
