"What have transactional systems like CICS or IMS got to do with
real-time, straight-through processing? Most mainframe transactions
store data that is later processed by batch, typically overnight."
If you think CICS and IMS are transactional only, youre stuck in the '80s.
As an example, ICCF on VSE uses CICS as the TP Monitor. Tell me that
writing code, storing it in a library, compiling, etc. are not "real-time".
Joe
On Sun, Jun 19, 2022 at 1:03 PM David Crayford<dcrayf...@gmail.com>
wrote:
On 20/06/2022 12:38 am, Seymour J Metz wrote:
Keep in mind that the mainframe can only do batch processing, with
input
from cards. It doesn't support anything like CICS, IMS or Sabre..
What have transactional systems like CICS or IMS got to do with
real-time, straight-through processing? Most mainframe transactions
store data that is later processed by batch, typically overnight. In the
case of banking transactions that require inter-bank settlements this
can cause delays of several days. In Australia the government mandated
the NPP (New Payments Platform) which facilities instant payments using
payids, which can be an email address, cellphone numbers etc. The API is
a simple REST API using HTTP
https://nppa.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/NPP-API-Framework-v4.0-Final.pdf
.
It's my understanding that no bank implemented NPP on the mainframe.
From the presentations I've seen they used CDC to capture writes and
then published events to Kafka, which was fanned out to different
micro-services to do fraud detection, payments, push notifications etc.
Back in the day straight-through processing was a pipe dream which is
why we have overnight batch. It's a relic of applications written
decades ago for very different hardware platforms.
It's much better to run Linux than to get an IFL, which can only run
batch.
I have no idea what you mean?
Cynical? Moi?
--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
________________________________________
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on
behalf of David Crayford [dcrayf...@gmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2022 2:36 AM
To:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Modernize Mainframe Applications for Hybrid Cloud with IBM
and AWS
On 19/06/2022 5:23 am, Enzo D'Amato wrote:
I also agree, but as a non-insider, I wanted to know what others were
thinking. I also belive that in most cases, the effort spent trying to
get
off the mainframe would be better spent actually fixing the code running
on
it in the first place. Moving around broken code doesn't automatically
fix
it.
It's not just about fixing broken code. If you read the ING CIO's
remarks about why they wanted off the mainframe it's not about the
platform. Nobody denies that mainframes are insanely brilliant hardware
platforms. ING wanted to get rid of batch and move towards an event
driven architecture using pub/sub where they can easily deploy loosely
coupled micro-services to provide cutting edge products. The technology
stacks are built on open source such as Kafka, MongoDB, Cassandra,
NiFi,
Avro etc. The retail banking industry has been disrupted by fintechs
so
waiting for an overnight batch schedule for settlements is a
competitive
disadvantage. Cracking open and modernizing 50-60 year old COBOL batch
applications is a VERY heavy lift.
https://secure-web.cisco.com/1GoiNO6FBPSWW0D9FZYVYixer1jsPeSd_xH-wmi6jMOC-onAkZQ4Pkf3c1UMGWbQeEprnkSWa1xGxz4vvn-LF0jVrCFlVVFZKQJ4Jti8nbQ7QchsOxhwNiwluJrdKkQP2nXXHQH2Ut2NNa9VChfVBIDR7Akw4ud6_pIXLAFXO5l73Sv-iLZFNU1MWWnLapWhhCKvytdzs7EJTvNZ2qbU8xwCdBEl1UkUuL-jHHZLk6xJPxAadVRWP1nuLz8i5AZrfvDI8u8rZ0V0DT77_Uvu8klHLbL9xe2qaYi1P6a6mc8r9Aj2jothGC-CR9cbCgb-JVXupgin9UctH5C_iVMyn_T-9jzZjtNyZDETxb8hXMU-BOuUz89MGu1nniZJ2tvSSN8yh5A6K-_It8fA10UFCfSBhOB0NVkwKL5M8A2BxZ9_e111GnxGK_PAbj0wh5fvU/https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theregister.com%2F2016%2F07%2F01%2Fing_mainframe_strategy%2F
<- read
the comments section. It's hilarious :)
The doubly whammy is there's a skills crisis slowly unraveling. In the
last year we've had 3 key resources move to 3 day weeks with a view to
retiring. Replacing highly skilled assembler programmers with deep
subsystem knowledge is proving to be difficult. Young people don't want
to learn HLASM as they consider it a dead-end. Their position is "why
invest 3-4 years learning a language that is useless if you move to
another industry?" I can't comment about COBOL application developers.
In 10 years time I expect the mainframe to be alive and kicking and
significantly modernized. The small/medium shops will probably be all
gone. When I first moved to my current town in 1998 there were 25-30
mainframe sites. Now there are 3 and 1 is on life support. One of our
customers re-platformed their CICS/COBOL/Batch applications from a z9
to
a single blade server. It doesn't make any sense financially for a
small
site to run a mainframe.
https://secure-web.cisco.com/1-2iTgedz9DPApFopeywjfCeLAkb4kS8D5gFCEDU1FxvGiDWA4ou6pqJyb1d_hBAvGUBtcA89RrAylX3opaG2YEyDaGkIhptpRdukdHvdGOJNKn5bruFlKlnigitV6PrV4n-6zInQkhkJJdSriM40VeYiNOpB8Pg3nTa5E6k6TTIOXSfdaiQOGk1Y6EXL4Xtu-wkeXJmwaPEZljVo3KuwR0K75lrsX8fDe2f2CjcjvfrM3ruLG4na4zrAU_pR4DViMh7bKBhJ35a94VHU7GR4Vh_mXKaYwtbhwnRJWR8gVkvYjmB2CjTOIxJE52bNN1-82_fpYopX-kZQntDkR4OKjvj-b1AV9yXlGQ3A-eGFbtuCb0_1t2R9tgZ5MqgMbzxGQKIf78I2U_xq8a9qYywx3_OgfQwbeMgd8fiatdC5CbUSlphDlQfSDw9sOErejC7z/https%3A%2F%2Fwww.itnews.com.au%2Fnews%2Fwa-insurance-commission-decommissions-mainframe-322780
Get BlueMail for Android<
https://secure-web.cisco.com/1bcgENTOsK8XbQ24q-R3ISXJI_yYDqxq2wHDg7brpU3Np08gk-JU47Zv8dYAGOAWnxVTv-NWRXAx9s4JTmUJU07wHFT67zaiAPG32upxzSYnSiKIM6O3YI79ZGti7V-QdCWRtiBxOjLh3oMxNvzCcJgTTW-HQmmeQii1zDdP-GC1Rs0umn7xhevV0-PazdAun8gOm5P8Ld_gCw2UojSyXNKZKfmsqJPnt96XgISsJy9-_K81O2L5O-GDW2nxM7_C00lPjk0sF0iNqPQKNZAhVr0kk4TCoT4ePDBbBBUCUw6KfhxpkkhmUuo549OfnVRHweKCGYhEm5WE9nw-5khsn01oqKJxbv_y6P4BrO5DGw0QG7NfYwbUflAaNRV_ljL51KqrNoQV0AdEetiWauYmab1O_GjVvCOudxDs52JwrFXbWBbqEqxhU7qQ3TS--F13f/https%3A%2F%2Fbluemail.me
On Jun 18, 2022, at 5:13 PM, Charles Mills <charl...@mcn.org<mailto:
charl...@mcn.org>> wrote:
I always like the stories about the companies that are in the eighth
year of
a three-year project to get off the mainframe.
Enzo, my friend, you have just kicked the hornets' nest! You had
better
duck, because the onslaught is coming. "The mainframe is [not] dead"
is
near
and dear to the hearts of IBM-MAINers.
Yes, I think the consensus is that the mainframe has a future. IBM
seems to
be focused mainly on the very largest shops, so the trend seems to be
bigger
and bigger machines at fewer and fewer companies. But it is hard to
envision
Bank of America balancing their checking accounts every day on an
array
of
Windows servers, in their datacenter or in the cloud. My reading of
the
tea
leaves -- I am not an insider -- is that for a long time IBM was
*saying*
the mainframe was here to stay but internally they did not believe it
and
were not making decisions on that basis -- but I think that has now
changed.
IBM appears to have made a HUGE investment in the z16, an investment
that
will take more than 5 or more years to recoup.
Welcome aboard!
Charles
-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU]
On
Behalf Of Enzo D'Amato
Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2022 1:56 PM
To:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Modernize Mainframe Applications for Hybrid Cloud with
IBM
and
AWS
As someone who is new to this field, and hasn't been though a wave of
"the
mainframe is going away" yet, will there still be companies running
the
mainframe 5 or 10 years down the line? Also, when I read about
companies
trying to get off of the mainframe, how often do these efforts end up
succeeding?
________________________________
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List<IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU> on
behalf of
Mike Schwab<mike.a.sch...@gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2022 12:04 AM
To:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Modernize Mainframe Applications for Hybrid Cloud with
IBM
and
AWS
Moshix signed up for an AWS instance, loaded up Hercules and Turnkey
4-, got it going, and allowed some other people to log in.
On Fri, Jun 17, 2022 at 8:31 AM Bill Johnson
<00000047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
Cloud - Something the mainframe has been doing for decades. We
called it
outsourcing. GM ran their entire organization out of mainframes in
Charlotte, Dallas, & perhaps another in the 80's. The internet just
made it
easier, and less secure & reliable. Brought outsourcing to a wider
audience.
Mainframe modernization. An oxymoron. Like saying today's cars are
like
cars from 50 years ago. The mainframe is more advanced than any other
platforms. Billions of dollars of investment and patented technologies
have
guaranteed its place for decades to come.
Sure, AWS, Azure, Oracle cloud & numerous others are creating
cheap,
unsecured, unreliable, platforms for small businesses, picture
storage,
emails, instant messaging, and many other tasks that aren't show
stoppers if
they're hacked or down for one of many reasons. As Capital One found
out and
lost almost 200 million for the pleasure.
I enjoy the glee that many of you exude when IBM has what might be
perceived as negative news. I saw the same glee when in the 90's some
idiot
said the mainframe would be history circa 2000.
Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
On Friday, June 17, 2022, 9:06 AM, zMan<zedgarhoo...@gmail.com>
wrote:
On Fri, Jun 17, 2022 at 5:50 AM David Crayford <
dcrayf...@gmail.com>
wrote:
Maybe it's the case that customers don't want to use IBMs cloud.
Where I
live in Australia the big four banks are moving significant chunks
of
their infrastructure to public cloud and have government
legislation
to
do so. NAB in particular have been quite aggressive, although like
most
sensible enterprises they have gone down the multi-cloud route with
Microsoft Azure so they don't have all their eggs in one basket.
It will be interesting to see if IBM can close the cloud gap.
Playing
catch-up is difficult when competing with behemoths with a decade+
head
start.
Indeed. Word from insiders is that since IBM "management" have
decided
cloud is The Answer, folks have started playing games, like
attributing
all
CICS-related revenue as "cloud". Q4 2020, IBM claimed $6.2B in
cloud
revenue on total revenue of $16B. Given that nobody EVER
says"cloud"
and
"IBM" in the same sentence in the real world, those numbers are
quite
difficult to believe without this kind of gameplaying.
________________________________
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--
Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA
Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all?
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