While I understand that it may be an unpopular opinion on this forum, I
personally believe that the ISPF editor is outdated relic. As Peter
mentioned, VS Code is a fantastic alternative. Additionally, Microsoft's
GitHub offers the Copilot plugin, which functions as an AI programming
assistant. In my own experience, using graphical user interface (GUI)
editors over the past two decades has greatly increased my productivity
through features like auto-completion, code navigation, and linting.
Copilot has exceeded my expectations, and I now believe we have entered
a new era of AI-assisted coding, similar to the game-changing
capabilities of ChatGPT.
https://docs.github.com/en/copilot
On 25/2/23 01:23, Farley, Peter wrote:
Lionel, respectfully I must disagree. I have been using the IBM Zxplore website on my own time for
over a year now for enhanced learning of some of the "new" technologies available on our
mainframe systems, and I have been consistently surprised to observe the actual difficulties that
genuine newcomers to mainframe systems have with many fundamental concepts that we take for
granted. The "almost tree-like (but not really)" structure of mainframe datasets and the
use (and mis-use) of JCL seem to be the most frequent cause of misunderstanding and errors, along
with learning to read and understand the messages generated from a batch job or utility execution.
It isn't the client-side tool interface (VSCode vs TSO/ISPF) that gives most of
the newcomers fits, they seem to pick that up without too many problems. It's
the fundamental system operational differences that make it harder for them to
grasp, at least at first.
OTOH, the VSCode/ZOWE interfaces were (for me anyway) easy to learn and
understand. Sometimes annoying to use but very effective. Especially Zowe
utilities at a command prompt, the help features are annoyingly verbose though
very helpful when you first start using them.
But all these open tools are only scratching the surface. The real deal costs real money, because
a Windows/Linux client cannot do dynamic compilation/binding/debugging on the mainframe without
paid packages from IBM or other vendor add-on products. At this point in time the best you can
offer with open-source tools is batch job submission to compile and bind and execute, and review
the batch job output in the VSCode client instead of in TSO/ISPF. I'm not sure that is enough of a
win to make it into a CIO's TODO list, especially when you add the DASD increment to supply all
developers with large enough z/OS Unix file systems to do their work in the "new way"
because that's a "real money" addition to the cost of operation.
And forget about CI/CD tool chains. The CI/CD tool vendors seem to all be using the
"normal" IBM and large ISV pricing schemes (i.e., lots of money) for mainframe
versions of those tools. Another (big!) minus in the CIO's view.
The other issue is CPU usage in today's frequently-CPU-constrained-due-to-cost mainframe shops. In
solving some of the Zxplore "challenges" (exercises to learn a feature or tool), many
times the challenge solutions prove over and over that the performance of z/OS Unix tools lags far
behind the "regular" mainframe tools like Rexx in the performance area, sometimes by
large factors (ZOAU tools in particular are real CPU hogs, and the DB2 Command Line Interface tool
as well). Python on the mainframe is pretty good, but still can't beat out Rexx in performance
even when the Rex script needs to use BPXWUNIX and friends to access z/OS Unix file systems, and
both python and Rexx often beat shell-scripted solution performance by several multiples. Again
not a plus when trying to get into a CIO's TODO list.
And that's my USD$0.02 worth.
Peter
-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU> On Behalf Of
Lionel B. Dyck
Sent: Friday, February 24, 2023 9:22 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: zOSMF and zOWE for non-mainframers
Just my $0.01 (not worth $0.02).
These developers who want/need access to z/OS and don't want to learn how to
work with z/OS, don't they learn new things all the time - new IDE's, different
operating systems (windows, macos, flavors of linux, unix, ...)? IMHO it is
easier to learn the TSO/ISPF interface than some of the distributed interfaces
(which change in small to large ways with upgrades).
Just my curmudgeonly opinion after struggling with some challenges with using
VSCode last weekend.
Lionel B. Dyck <><
Website:
https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.lbdsoftware.com__;!!Ebr-cpPeAnfNniQ8HSAI-g_K5b7VKg!MqpmHq_VRWuj8wK14SatSDQWJGXeGrVWi5_dAm8crRqLAJuu-eLagqlqYnH7U0D524MhnZpyL6Gq6WBEzt4$
Github:
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“Worry more about your character than your reputation. Character is what you
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-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU> On Behalf Of
Bill Giannelli
Sent: Friday, February 24, 2023 8:02 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: zOSMF and zOWE for non-mainframers
So I hope you all dont mind a general question...........
We have the common struggle of dealing with non-mainframe developers accessing
z/OS (programs, jobs, DB2) and an attitude that we need to leave the mainframe.
In trying to leverage our z/OS environment, might ZOWE (and the required zOSMF) provide a better
transition and/or "access" to z/OS "processes"?
We do not have zOSMF and ZOWE implemented. I was wondering if it may be worth
while to do so.
I hope my question makes sense.
thanks
Bill
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