Samir, I said all my thoughts in positive sense. 'it is not good for just two of us to aggressively discuss over these two species' It is better to have others taking part in the discussion rather than have only a dialogue between us two.
'We must and will take a pause here and let others voice their opinions and views.' I am suggesting "we" may be preventing. Regards. Dinesh On Sat, Oct 31, 2015 at 11:59 AM, Samir Mehta <samirmeht...@gmail.com> wrote: > 'it is not good for just two of us to aggressively discuss over these two > species' > > I am not at all sure what you, pls clarify. > > > 'We must and will take a pause here and let others voice their opinions > and views.' > > Dear flower-friend, I think this comment is uncalled for, as read and > interpreted in plain english, you are suggesting I am preventing others > from voicing their opinion - there could be nothing further from the truth, > in fact I welcome it. > > Rgds, > > > > On Sat, Oct 31, 2015 at 9:51 AM, Dinesh Valke <dinesh.va...@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> Dear Samir, >> I am not capable of studying the links you have provided. It is beyond my >> limits of understanding :-) >> Moreover, it is not good for just two of us to aggressively discuss over >> these two species. >> >> We must and will take a pause here and let others voice their opinions >> and views. >> >> Regards. >> Dinesh >> >> On Sat, Oct 31, 2015 at 5:32 AM, Samir Mehta <samirmeht...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >>> https://archive.org/stream/revisionofgenfisher#page/402/mode/2up >>> >>> You will find the keys to the genus on above weblink. >>> >>> Rgds, >>> >>> >>> >>> On Sat, Oct 31, 2015 at 5:25 AM, Samir Mehta <samirmeht...@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> <https://archive.org/stream/revisionofgenfisher#page/444/mode/2up/search/cosmos+caudatus> >>>> https://archive.org/details/*revision*ofgenfisher >>>> >>>> https://archive.org/details/revisionofgenfisher >>>> >>>> <https://archive.org/stream/revisionofgenfisher#page/444/mode/2up/search/cosmos+caudatus> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> <https://archive.org/stream/revisionofgenfisher#page/444/mode/2up/search/cosmos+caudatus> >>>> >>>> >>>> https://archive.org/stream/revisionofgenfisher#page/444/mode/2up/search/cosmos+caudatus >>>> >>>> (above page most specific for C. diversifolius) >>>> >>>> >>>> https://archive.org/stream/revisionofgenfisher#page/412/mode/2up/search/cosmos+caudatus >>>> >>>> (above page most specific for C. caudatus >>>> >>>> >>>> I have found a publication called 'Revsion of genus Cosmos' and given >>>> links to 2 of the most specific pages wrt C. caudaus an C. diversifolius; >>>> However most of the stuff is in Latin (I do not know Latin), some in >>>> English. As I cannot read all of it - even parts specific to C. cudatus and >>>> diversifolius - I do not want to hazard a guess. [All I can say is that >>>> achene of my plant is 2-aristate.]. >>>> >>>> >>>> Kindly go through the same and give your views. >>>> >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> >>>> >>>> Samir Mehta >>>> >>>> >>>> On Thursday, October 29, 2015 at 5:42:37 PM UTC+5:30, Samir Mehta wrote: >>>>> >>>>> 'Rather than digging into keys of exotic flora, if we get to know the >>>>> facts / history of their introduction, that may serve our purpose. I >>>>> strongly believe only one of these was introduced in India.' >>>>> >>>>> I did read that in your initial mail but told myself - How does it >>>>> matter? C. caudatus may have been introduced on a larger scale but there >>>>> may have been introduction of C. diversifolius also (and not so well >>>>> documented or by accident). >>>>> >>>>> It's also true that if you do not have a complete set of images / data >>>>> you have limited choice. >>>>> >>>>> OK....Let's split the labour.... I try to dig out the keys / papers >>>>> and you try dig out the historical facts! >>>>> >>>>> Regards, >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, Oct 29, 2015 at 5:23 PM, Dinesh Valke <dinesh.va...@gmail.com> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Samir, I marked a copy to Tabish because my plant features in Flowers >>>>>> of India >>>>>> <http://www.flowersofindia.net/catalog/slides/Wild%20Cosmos.html> :-) >>>>>> He should be aware of the outcome of this discussion; he may even >>>>>> share his thoughts. >>>>>> Hopefully Shrikant ji also gives his thoughts. >>>>>> >>>>>> Rather than digging into keys of exotic flora, if we get to know the >>>>>> facts / history of their introduction, that may serve our purpose. I >>>>>> strongly believe only one of these was introduced in India. >>>>>> >>>>>> Regards. >>>>>> Dinesh >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Thu, Oct 29, 2015 at 4:58 PM, Samir Mehta <samirmeht...@gmail.com> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> I had relied on FoS for the id. Now that stands challenged – and for >>>>>>> good reason. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Point well taken; Agree with your concerns Dinesh. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The two species seem to be very closely related. [I will post one >>>>>>> Alisycarpus where I am having similar difficulty] >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Objective: is to take a bipartisan approach to resolving the id (not >>>>>>> only two of us but the entire group - that's what a group is for in the >>>>>>> first place). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I suggest: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 1. We try and get relevant keys of genus Cosmos. >>>>>>> 2. Some scientific paper on the genus or something even more >>>>>>> specific. >>>>>>> 3. In Asteraceae the bracts are important, so the reverse of the >>>>>>> flower face is important to demonstrate. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> . >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I am marking this mail to Shrikant Ingalhalikar also (you have >>>>>>> already marked mail to Tabish). It will be helpful if the two gentlemen >>>>>>> share there views also as we have relied on their respective works. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I am also adding one more image to add more data on the species >>>>>>> photographed by me. If you have more revealing images of your specimen >>>>>>> please share them (or link) with this thread. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Rgds, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 29, 2015 at 10:26 AM, Dinesh Valke < >>>>>>> dinesh.va...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> At the University of Michigan pages, the Notes are as follows ... >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> *C. diversifolius* >>>>>>>> http://quod.lib.umich.edu/h/herb2ic/x-mich1108999/mich1108999___tif >>>>>>>> Notes >>>>>>>> Pine-oak forests west of summits Occasional, mostly past flower. *Rays >>>>>>>> white, disk yellow*. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> *C. caudatus* >>>>>>>> http://quod.lib.umich.edu/h/herb2ic/x-mich1108998/MICH1108998.TIF >>>>>>>> Notes >>>>>>>> Ungrazed hillsides in Bouteloua grassland Abundant on banks and >>>>>>>> disturbed ground. Annual to 2 m. high; selected small specimens; *rays >>>>>>>> deep pink, paler after opening, and often white toward base; disk >>>>>>>> yellow* >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Regards. >>>>>>>> Dinesh >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 29, 2015 at 10:19 AM, Dinesh Valke < >>>>>>>> dinesh.va...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thanks Samir for working out to get the references used for >>>>>>>>> arriving to *C. diversifolius*. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Yes, Shrikant ji's 3rd book does show a picture of *C. >>>>>>>>> diversifolius* matching posted plant's flower. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Let us view a link related to *C. caudatus* in Wikimedia ... >>>>>>>>> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Cosmos_caudatus >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> and the herbarium link ... >>>>>>>>> http://quod.lib.umich.edu/h/herb2ic/x-mich1108998/MICH1108998.TIF >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Somehow the content at both the links provided by you / me match >>>>>>>>> the posted plant. >>>>>>>>> We thus need someone to help us understand which of the two >>>>>>>>> species was introduced in India. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Regards. >>>>>>>>> Dinesh >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 29, 2015 at 4:01 AM, Samir Mehta < >>>>>>>>> samirmeht...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> For the more technical, visit: >>>>>>>>>> http://quod.lib.umich.edu/h/herb2ic/x-mich1108999/mich1108999___tif >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Rgds, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 29, 2015 at 12:31 AM, Dinesh Valke < >>>>>>>>>> dinesh.va...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Thanks all for having consensus on *Cosmos diversifolius*. >>>>>>>>>>> I had posted my plant to the group with the ID of *C. caudatus*. >>>>>>>>>>> It was not validated positively (nor in negative until today). >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> This ID of *Cosmos diversifolius* is not convincing me. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Both *C. diversifolius >>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.ars-grin.gov/cgi-bin/npgs/html/taxon.pl?11682>* and *C. >>>>>>>>>>> caudatus <http://www.ars-grin.gov/cgi-bin/npgs/html/taxon.pl?11681>* >>>>>>>>>>> are native of Latin America, Not sure if *C. diversifolius* has >>>>>>>>>>> naturalized in our country - not mentioned in NPGS pages, rather *C. >>>>>>>>>>> caudatus* seems to have naturalized in larger part of eastern >>>>>>>>>>> hemisphere including India. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Results in image search on Google for these two species >>>>>>>>>>> *diversifolius* & *caudatus* match more to *C. caudatus*. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Dear friends, I have put my thoughts, please validate. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Regards. >>>>>>>>>>> Dinesh >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Oct 28, 2015 at 11:35 PM, Samir Mehta < >>>>>>>>>>> samirmeht...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Yes Dinesh, plant has been incorrectly identified on the group. >>>>>>>>>>>> No wonder I did not find it when I searched for it. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Paresh ji, your images are superb. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Rgds, >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Samir Mehta >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, October 28, 2015 at 11:09:05 PM UTC+5:30, >>>>>>>>>>>> pareshchuri wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Wonderful images Samir ji ! >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes Dinesh ji, I have also photographed this plant from >>>>>>>>>>>>> Tungreshwar WLS & got identified from Sushant More. >>>>>>>>>>>>> It can be viewed here- >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.ifoundbutterflies.org/nectar-plants/969/Cosmos-diversifolius >>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.google.com/url?q=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ifoundbutterflies.org%2Fnectar-plants%2F969%2FCosmos-diversifolius&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFQjCNEalkP5gbpO1_d6C7_kLKuRsB949Q> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Regards >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Oct 28, 2015 at 9:59 PM, Dinesh Valke < >>>>>>>>>>>>> dinesh...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks Samir for sharing this plant; I have similar (seen >>>>>>>>>>>>>> planted at Tungareshwar WLS) and was under the impression that >>>>>>>>>>>>>> it is *Cosmos >>>>>>>>>>>>>> caudatus* Kunth. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Regards. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dinesh >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Oct 28, 2015 at 9:12 PM, Samir Mehta < >>>>>>>>>>>>>> samirm...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wild flower @ S Gujarat, October. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> New addition to group data base. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Samir Mehta >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups "efloraofindia" group. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from it, send an email to indiantreepi...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> indian...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Visit this group at >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups "efloraofindia" group. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from >>>>>>>>>>>>>> it, send an email to indiantreepi...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> indian...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Visit this group at >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the >>>> Google Groups "efloraofindia" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit >>>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/indiantreepix/VH_yTkIuR50/unsubscribe >>>> . >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to >>>> indiantreepix+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>> To post to this group, send email to indiantreepix@googlegroups.com. >>>> >>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>> >>> >>> >> > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "efloraofindia" group. 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