Dear Sir Nice pics. You may contact my PhD mentor Prof G.S.Rawat about the occurrence of these species in the Himalayas as he has conducted extensive surveys in this area. Here are few details I am quoting from Orchids of Bhutan, Orchids of Northwest Himalaya and Orchids of Arunachal Pradesh.
Dactylorhiza hatagirea INDIA: Jammu and Kashmir (Kashmir, Kishan Ganga Valley, Sonmarg, Gulmarg, Gilgit, Poonch, Ladakh), Himachal Pradesh (Shimla, Chamba, Lahaul, Kullu, Ksokar), Uttarakhand (Garhwal - Mussorie, Tehri, Uttarkashi, Chamoli; Kumaun - Pithoragarh), Arunachal Pradesh (Kameng, Subhanshri); PAKISTAN NEPAL & SOUTH WEST TIBET (CHINA). Gymnadenia orchidis INDIA: Jammu & Kashmir (Liddar Valley), Himachal Pradesh (Pangi Chamba, Shimla, Dhanchoo, Kinnor), Uttarakhand (Garhwal - Uttarkashi, Chamoli; Kumaun - Pithoragarh, Nainital), West Bengal (Darjeeling), Sikkim, Arunachal Pradesh (Kameng, Lohit, Siang); PAKISTAN; NEPAL; BHUTAN. Note: I cant find a reference saying this from Ladakh area but with such distribution from Pakistan till Bhutan, I imagine WHY NOT? Hope this helps. Pankaj On Wed, Jan 18, 2017 at 7:47 AM, C CHADWELL <chrischadwell...@btinternet.com > wrote: > I am in agreement that conditions in the NW Himalaya (which I consider to > be Kashmir & H.P. but not Uttarakhand) > are different to Uttarakhand. The State of Uttarakhand represents the > north-westerly limit of the range of quite > a number of Himalayan species belonging to many genera. > > I consider dividing the main Himalaya into just "Western" and "Eastern" is > too simplistic. Perfect divisions seldom > exist but better to have "North-West" (see above), "Central" (covering > Uttarakhand plus West & Central Nepal), then "Eastern" > (covering East Nepal, Sikkim & Bhutan). I am not familiar enough with > the vegetation/floristics of A.P. to comment as to whether > it fits into 'East' Himalaya well or has greater affinities with the flora > of the mountains of SW China (which I do not count > as part of the Himalaya proper - just as the Karakoram and Hindu Kush are > not part of the Himalaya proper). > > *I remain interested in the identify (according to Western Science) of > plants collected under 'Tibetan Names'* > *especially the CORRECT geographic range, altitudinal range and habitats > for Dactylorhiza hatagirea* > *(sensu lato) and Gymnadenia orchidis.* > > *As you know, orchids are few and far between in the Indian > Trans-Himalaya. Dickore & Klimes (2005) list the following* > *species from Ladakh:* > > *Dactylorhiza hatagirea* > *D.kafiriana* > *Epipactis helleborine* > *Epipactis persica* > *Herminium monorchis* > > *I have not come across any Epipactis in Ladakh myself (though have seen > E.helleborine in Kashmir).* > > *The typical habitat for the Dactylorhizas and Herminium in Ladakh (and > Lahoul) is in 'marshy' conditions around the* > *irrigation channels of fields. See attached images taken from some 800m > above the Matayan in Ladakh (the first settlement* > *after one crosses the Zoji La from Kashmir).* > > *Gymnadenia orchidis is NOT known from Ladakh. I am curious as to the > CORRECT ranges and conditions under which this* > *and Dactylorhiza hatagirea grow in Nepal, Sikkim & Bhutan. Does any > member have a copy of Orchidaceae of Bhutan, so can* > *check the details?* > > *The Gymnadenia is not recorded in 'Flora of Lahaul-Spiti' which IF > correct, suggests it is NOT a Trans-Himalayan species and so* > *would not be expected in Nepalese, Sikkimese or Bhutanese territory > bordering Tibet, yet the Dactylorhiza would be.* > > *In addition to records from Kashmir territory, Stewart recoded the > Gymnadenia from Hazara.* > > *The original MEDIEVAL texts which Tibetan Medicine is based upon, mostly > describes species from close to Lhasa/SE Tibet * > *and Bhutan (which was known as 'Southern Valley of Medicinal Herbs'). > Doctors of traditional medicine operating in Ladakh* > *would located the NEAREST equivalent plant, which in some cases is NOT > the same 'species' according to Western Science.* > > *4 images attached (photographed as slides in mind-1980s) then scanned in:* > > *All show the settlement of Matayan, Ladakh at some 3000m with irrigated > fields of barley (probably also peas and some fodder crops) photographed in > September after harvest. The irrigation channels are home to Dactylorhiza > hatagirea and sometimes Herminium monorchis.* > > > Best Wishes, > > > Chris Chadwell > > > 81 Parlaunt Road > SLOUGH > SL3 8BE > UK > > www.shpa.org.uk > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* J.M. Garg <jmga...@gmail.com> > *To:* Dr. Pankaj Kumar <sahanipan...@gmail.com> > *Cc:* chrischadwell...@btinternet.com; efloraofindia < > indiantreepix@googlegroups.com> > *Sent:* Tuesday, 17 January 2017, 0:40 > *Subject:* Re: Dactylorhiza hatagirea sensu lato in Bhutan and Eastern > Himalaya > > Thanks a lot, Pankaj ji > > On 16 Jan 2017 6:48 p.m., "Pankaj Kumar" <sahanipan...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Dactylorhiza hatagirea and Gymnadenia orchidis are very widespread above a > particular elevation. I am sure it should be there in Pakistan if it is > there in Indian Kashmir. BUt please remember the aspect of Himalaya changes > if you go westwards from uttarakhand. So uttarakhand has rich diversity and > then species number goes down westwards till the end of Himalayas around > Afghanistan. > You cant treat a species based on their traditional name. As I said > Dactylorhiza hatagirea is widespread and some variations are normal. Infact > at one point I think Dactylorhiza umbrosa should be merged under hatagirea. > Gymnadenia is very different for sure but without flower just on the basis > of leaves you cant differentiate, infact there are many Habenaria found in > same habitat which cant be differentiated either. NOT A BIG DEAL. > In China all Dendrobiums are used in chinese medicine as Shih Hu. But > there are many species of Dendrobiums in China. They are very distinct from > each other. > > > > On Mon, Jan 16, 2017 at 12:33 PM, J.M. Garg <jmga...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Thanks a lot, Chadwell ji. > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: "C CHADWELL" <chrischadwell261@btinternet.c om > <chrischadwell...@btinternet.com>> > Date: 16 Jan 2017 7:20 a.m. > Subject: Dactylorhiza hatagirea sensu lato in Bhutan and Eastern Himalaya > To: "J.M. Garg" <jmga...@gmail.com> > Cc: > > My first visit further East along the Himalaya came in 1990 when I went to > Nepal for the first time. > I do not remember seeing any terrestrial orchids but did notice a number > of epiphytic ones at lower > elevation. The first epiphytic orchids I had seen were when I travelled > from Srinagar, Kashmir to > Jammu then took the train to Pathankot and noticed some in trees in Kangra > district en route to Manali. > > No Dactylorhiza nor Gymnadenia are mentioned in 'Flora of Mustang' but I > do not consider this to be complete > by any means as I personally know quite a number of species omitted. > > Enumeration of the Flowering plants of Nepal gives: > > D.hatagirea a distribution of Pakistan to Bhutan & SE Tibet @ 2800-3960m > > G.orchidis a distribution of Kashmir to Bhutan & SE Tibet @ 3000-4700m. > > Unfortunately, I do not have a copy of Orchidaceae for Flora of Bhutan > (which also covers Sikkim). > > In the mid-1990s I was a consultant to 'The Royal Government of Bhutan' on > 'The Cultivation of Medicinal > Plants for Traditional Medicine Project'. > > Prior to my first visit to Bhutan I was sent a partial list of Himalayan > species utilised in Bhutanese Medicine with > their equivalent Tibetan name. I immediately noticed some errors within > the Latin names, as several of the species > on the list were restricted to the 'Western' Himalaya and not known in > Bhutan. > > *As I regularly comment, the geographic distribution of species is seldom > checked. I must ENCOURAGE all those* > *attempting to identify plants in the Himalaya to check along with > checking if the elevation where a specimen has* > *been recorded TALLIES with its known altitudinal range. IF it is at a > significantly higher or lower elevation, then open* > *must investigate further.* > > In the list, as expected, there was an entry for 'dbang-lag' which had > been named as Dactylorhiza hatagirea, however, I wondered > if other orchids were collected as well - indeed there was evidence to > suggest D.hatagirea was not found much in Bhutan. > > In another list the 'botanical name' for dbang-lag was given as Gymnadenia > crassinervis. This species is, as far as I know, restricted to > China (Yunnan & Sichuan), so is likely to be a misidentification. The > most likely explanation is that someone looked up the Latin name for > dbang-lag in a Chinese reference book. > > Assuming ALL Dactylorhiza and Gymnadenia have hand-shaped roots then it is > likely that ANY from these two genera are collected by > doctors of Tibetan Medicine. The actual species will vary from region to > region. > > Gymnadenia orchidis is recorded for Nepal and Bhutan. > > *I see that the group's orchid specialist expresses uncertainty in > distinguishing between D.hatagirea and G.orchidis, when specimens are not > in flower. If someone with specialist knowledge struggles, it means other > botanists will have done so in the past. Thus either species may have > previously been over or under-recorded.* > > *There is also the issue of whether Dactylorhiza hatagirea is a variable > complex or a number of taxa can be separated, as Soo suggested in the past.* > > *Has any member got a copy of Orchidaceae for Bhutan (or can check a copy > in a major botanical library) and see what was said about* > *these two 'species' and closely-related ones?* > > > > > Best Wishes, > > > Chris Chadwell > > > 81 Parlaunt Road > SLOUGH > SL3 8BE > UK > > www.shpa.org.uk > > > > > > > > -- > ****************************** ****************************** > ****************************** **************************** > *Pankaj Kumar*, Ph.D. > *IUCN-SSC Orchid Specialist Group Asia* > > *Office*: > > Conservation Officer > > Orchid Conservation Section > > Flora Conservation Department > > Kadoorie Farm and Botanic Garden (KFBG) Corporation > Lam Kam Road, Tai Po, New Territories, Hong Kong. > > *Residence*: > House no. 39, 2nd Floor, Shui Wo Tsuen > Lam Tsuen, Tai Po, New Territories, Hong Kong. > *email*: pku...@kfbg.org; sahanipan...@gmail.com > *Phone*: +852 2483 7128 <2483%207128> (office - 8:30am to 5:00pm); +852 > 9436 6251 <9436%206251> (mobile); *Fax*: +852 2483 7194 <2483%207194> > > > > -- ****************************************************** **************************************************************** *Pankaj Kumar*, Ph.D. *IUCN-SSC Orchid Specialist Group Asia* *Office*: Conservation Officer Orchid Conservation Section Flora Conservation Department Kadoorie Farm and Botanic Garden (KFBG) Corporation Lam Kam Road, Tai Po, New Territories, Hong Kong. *Residence*: House no. 39, 2nd Floor, Shui Wo Tsuen Lam Tsuen, Tai Po, New Territories, Hong Kong. *email*: pku...@kfbg.org; sahanipan...@gmail.com *Phone*: +852 2483 7128 (office - 8:30am to 5:00pm); +852 9436 6251 (mobile); *Fax*: +852 2483 7194 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "efloraofindia" group. 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