Thanks, Pankaj ji and Chadwell ji On 18 Jan 2017 6:27 p.m., "Pankaj Kumar" <sahanipan...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Dear Sir > Nice pics. > You may contact my PhD mentor Prof G.S.Rawat about the occurrence of these > species in the Himalayas as he has conducted extensive surveys in this area. > Here are few details I am quoting from Orchids of Bhutan, Orchids of > Northwest Himalaya and Orchids of Arunachal Pradesh. > > Dactylorhiza hatagirea > INDIA: Jammu and Kashmir (Kashmir, Kishan Ganga Valley, Sonmarg, Gulmarg, > Gilgit, Poonch, Ladakh), Himachal Pradesh (Shimla, Chamba, Lahaul, Kullu, > Ksokar), Uttarakhand (Garhwal - Mussorie, Tehri, Uttarkashi, Chamoli; > Kumaun - Pithoragarh), Arunachal Pradesh (Kameng, Subhanshri); PAKISTAN > NEPAL & SOUTH WEST TIBET (CHINA). > > Gymnadenia orchidis > INDIA: Jammu & Kashmir (Liddar Valley), Himachal Pradesh (Pangi Chamba, > Shimla, Dhanchoo, Kinnor), Uttarakhand (Garhwal - Uttarkashi, Chamoli; > Kumaun - Pithoragarh, Nainital), West Bengal (Darjeeling), Sikkim, > Arunachal Pradesh (Kameng, Lohit, Siang); PAKISTAN; NEPAL; BHUTAN. > Note: I cant find a reference saying this from Ladakh area but with such > distribution from Pakistan till Bhutan, I imagine WHY NOT? > > Hope this helps. > Pankaj > > > > On Wed, Jan 18, 2017 at 7:47 AM, C CHADWELL <chrischadwell261@btinternet. > com> wrote: > >> I am in agreement that conditions in the NW Himalaya (which I consider to >> be Kashmir & H.P. but not Uttarakhand) >> are different to Uttarakhand. The State of Uttarakhand represents the >> north-westerly limit of the range of quite >> a number of Himalayan species belonging to many genera. >> >> I consider dividing the main Himalaya into just "Western" and "Eastern" >> is too simplistic. Perfect divisions seldom >> exist but better to have "North-West" (see above), "Central" (covering >> Uttarakhand plus West & Central Nepal), then "Eastern" >> (covering East Nepal, Sikkim & Bhutan). I am not familiar enough with >> the vegetation/floristics of A.P. to comment as to whether >> it fits into 'East' Himalaya well or has greater affinities with the >> flora of the mountains of SW China (which I do not count >> as part of the Himalaya proper - just as the Karakoram and Hindu Kush are >> not part of the Himalaya proper). >> >> *I remain interested in the identify (according to Western Science) of >> plants collected under 'Tibetan Names'* >> *especially the CORRECT geographic range, altitudinal range and habitats >> for Dactylorhiza hatagirea* >> *(sensu lato) and Gymnadenia orchidis.* >> >> *As you know, orchids are few and far between in the Indian >> Trans-Himalaya. Dickore & Klimes (2005) list the following* >> *species from Ladakh:* >> >> *Dactylorhiza hatagirea* >> *D.kafiriana* >> *Epipactis helleborine* >> *Epipactis persica* >> *Herminium monorchis* >> >> *I have not come across any Epipactis in Ladakh myself (though have seen >> E.helleborine in Kashmir).* >> >> *The typical habitat for the Dactylorhizas and Herminium in Ladakh (and >> Lahoul) is in 'marshy' conditions around the* >> *irrigation channels of fields. See attached images taken from some 800m >> above the Matayan in Ladakh (the first settlement* >> *after one crosses the Zoji La from Kashmir).* >> >> *Gymnadenia orchidis is NOT known from Ladakh. I am curious as to the >> CORRECT ranges and conditions under which this* >> *and Dactylorhiza hatagirea grow in Nepal, Sikkim & Bhutan. Does any >> member have a copy of Orchidaceae of Bhutan, so can* >> *check the details?* >> >> *The Gymnadenia is not recorded in 'Flora of Lahaul-Spiti' which IF >> correct, suggests it is NOT a Trans-Himalayan species and so* >> *would not be expected in Nepalese, Sikkimese or Bhutanese territory >> bordering Tibet, yet the Dactylorhiza would be.* >> >> *In addition to records from Kashmir territory, Stewart recoded the >> Gymnadenia from Hazara.* >> >> *The original MEDIEVAL texts which Tibetan Medicine is based upon, mostly >> describes species from close to Lhasa/SE Tibet * >> *and Bhutan (which was known as 'Southern Valley of Medicinal Herbs'). >> Doctors of traditional medicine operating in Ladakh* >> *would located the NEAREST equivalent plant, which in some cases is NOT >> the same 'species' according to Western Science.* >> >> *4 images attached (photographed as slides in mind-1980s) then scanned >> in:* >> >> *All show the settlement of Matayan, Ladakh at some 3000m with irrigated >> fields of barley (probably also peas and some fodder crops) photographed in >> September after harvest. The irrigation channels are home to Dactylorhiza >> hatagirea and sometimes Herminium monorchis.* >> >> >> Best Wishes, >> >> >> Chris Chadwell >> >> >> 81 Parlaunt Road >> SLOUGH >> SL3 8BE >> UK >> >> www.shpa.org.uk >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* J.M. Garg <jmga...@gmail.com> >> *To:* Dr. Pankaj Kumar <sahanipan...@gmail.com> >> *Cc:* chrischadwell...@btinternet.com; efloraofindia < >> indiantreepix@googlegroups.com> >> *Sent:* Tuesday, 17 January 2017, 0:40 >> *Subject:* Re: Dactylorhiza hatagirea sensu lato in Bhutan and Eastern >> Himalaya >> >> Thanks a lot, Pankaj ji >> >> On 16 Jan 2017 6:48 p.m., "Pankaj Kumar" <sahanipan...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Dactylorhiza hatagirea and Gymnadenia orchidis are very widespread above >> a particular elevation. I am sure it should be there in Pakistan if it is >> there in Indian Kashmir. BUt please remember the aspect of Himalaya changes >> if you go westwards from uttarakhand. So uttarakhand has rich diversity and >> then species number goes down westwards till the end of Himalayas around >> Afghanistan. >> You cant treat a species based on their traditional name. As I said >> Dactylorhiza hatagirea is widespread and some variations are normal. Infact >> at one point I think Dactylorhiza umbrosa should be merged under hatagirea. >> Gymnadenia is very different for sure but without flower just on the >> basis of leaves you cant differentiate, infact there are many Habenaria >> found in same habitat which cant be differentiated either. NOT A BIG DEAL. >> In China all Dendrobiums are used in chinese medicine as Shih Hu. But >> there are many species of Dendrobiums in China. They are very distinct from >> each other. >> >> >> >> On Mon, Jan 16, 2017 at 12:33 PM, J.M. Garg <jmga...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Thanks a lot, Chadwell ji. >> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >> From: "C CHADWELL" <chrischadwell261@btinternet.c om >> <chrischadwell...@btinternet.com>> >> Date: 16 Jan 2017 7:20 a.m. >> Subject: Dactylorhiza hatagirea sensu lato in Bhutan and Eastern Himalaya >> To: "J.M. Garg" <jmga...@gmail.com> >> Cc: >> >> My first visit further East along the Himalaya came in 1990 when I went >> to Nepal for the first time. >> I do not remember seeing any terrestrial orchids but did notice a number >> of epiphytic ones at lower >> elevation. The first epiphytic orchids I had seen were when I travelled >> from Srinagar, Kashmir to >> Jammu then took the train to Pathankot and noticed some in trees in >> Kangra district en route to Manali. >> >> No Dactylorhiza nor Gymnadenia are mentioned in 'Flora of Mustang' but I >> do not consider this to be complete >> by any means as I personally know quite a number of species omitted. >> >> Enumeration of the Flowering plants of Nepal gives: >> >> D.hatagirea a distribution of Pakistan to Bhutan & SE Tibet @ 2800-3960m >> >> G.orchidis a distribution of Kashmir to Bhutan & SE Tibet @ 3000-4700m. >> >> Unfortunately, I do not have a copy of Orchidaceae for Flora of Bhutan >> (which also covers Sikkim). >> >> In the mid-1990s I was a consultant to 'The Royal Government of Bhutan' >> on 'The Cultivation of Medicinal >> Plants for Traditional Medicine Project'. >> >> Prior to my first visit to Bhutan I was sent a partial list of Himalayan >> species utilised in Bhutanese Medicine with >> their equivalent Tibetan name. I immediately noticed some errors within >> the Latin names, as several of the species >> on the list were restricted to the 'Western' Himalaya and not known in >> Bhutan. >> >> *As I regularly comment, the geographic distribution of species is seldom >> checked. I must ENCOURAGE all those* >> *attempting to identify plants in the Himalaya to check along with >> checking if the elevation where a specimen has* >> *been recorded TALLIES with its known altitudinal range. IF it is at a >> significantly higher or lower elevation, then open* >> *must investigate further.* >> >> In the list, as expected, there was an entry for 'dbang-lag' which had >> been named as Dactylorhiza hatagirea, however, I wondered >> if other orchids were collected as well - indeed there was evidence to >> suggest D.hatagirea was not found much in Bhutan. >> >> In another list the 'botanical name' for dbang-lag was given as >> Gymnadenia crassinervis. This species is, as far as I know, restricted to >> China (Yunnan & Sichuan), so is likely to be a misidentification. The >> most likely explanation is that someone looked up the Latin name for >> dbang-lag in a Chinese reference book. >> >> Assuming ALL Dactylorhiza and Gymnadenia have hand-shaped roots then it >> is likely that ANY from these two genera are collected by >> doctors of Tibetan Medicine. The actual species will vary from region to >> region. >> >> Gymnadenia orchidis is recorded for Nepal and Bhutan. >> >> *I see that the group's orchid specialist expresses uncertainty in >> distinguishing between D.hatagirea and G.orchidis, when specimens are not >> in flower. If someone with specialist knowledge struggles, it means other >> botanists will have done so in the past. Thus either species may have >> previously been over or under-recorded.* >> >> *There is also the issue of whether Dactylorhiza hatagirea is a variable >> complex or a number of taxa can be separated, as Soo suggested in the past.* >> >> *Has any member got a copy of Orchidaceae for Bhutan (or can check a copy >> in a major botanical library) and see what was said about* >> *these two 'species' and closely-related ones?* >> >> >> >> >> Best Wishes, >> >> >> Chris Chadwell >> >> >> 81 Parlaunt Road >> SLOUGH >> SL3 8BE >> UK >> >> www.shpa.org.uk >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> ****************************** ****************************** >> ****************************** **************************** >> *Pankaj Kumar*, Ph.D. >> *IUCN-SSC Orchid Specialist Group Asia* >> >> *Office*: >> >> Conservation Officer >> >> Orchid Conservation Section >> >> Flora Conservation Department >> >> Kadoorie Farm and Botanic Garden (KFBG) Corporation >> Lam Kam Road, Tai Po, New Territories, Hong Kong. >> >> *Residence*: >> House no. 39, 2nd Floor, Shui Wo Tsuen >> Lam Tsuen, Tai Po, New Territories, Hong Kong. >> *email*: pku...@kfbg.org; sahanipan...@gmail.com >> *Phone*: +852 2483 7128 <2483%207128> (office - 8:30am to 5:00pm); +852 >> 9436 6251 <9436%206251> (mobile); *Fax*: +852 2483 7194 <2483%207194> >> >> >> >> > > > -- > ************************************************************ > ********************************************************** > *Pankaj Kumar*, Ph.D. > *IUCN-SSC Orchid Specialist Group Asia* > > *Office*: > > Conservation Officer > > Orchid Conservation Section > > Flora Conservation Department > > Kadoorie Farm and Botanic Garden (KFBG) Corporation > Lam Kam Road, Tai Po, New Territories, Hong Kong. > > *Residence*: > House no. 39, 2nd Floor, Shui Wo Tsuen > Lam Tsuen, Tai Po, New Territories, Hong Kong. > *email*: pku...@kfbg.org; sahanipan...@gmail.com > *Phone*: +852 2483 7128 (office - 8:30am to 5:00pm); +852 9436 6251 > (mobile); *Fax*: +852 2483 7194 > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "efloraofindia" group. 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