On 03/10/02 20:19 +0200, nadim wrote: > Hi All, > > Inline 0.50 is much like messiah, We wait and wait and hope keeps us > waiting still he doesn't come. and it comes, we might not recognize it. > > You write yourself things like : "You'll never believe it, but I actually > just put a release on the web site". Well I didn't have time to check yet > so I'll live on faith and believe you. > > I grew away from Inline partly because of this waiting. I believe things > should go a bit faster. I also thinks it is your 'attitude' if things go > slow and here is why: > - Inline (the core) is very much your baby and I don't get any feeling you > (actively) want to let other baby sit it.
Well I agree and disagree. Inline is my baby that I have reared in the public. Whether I've been a good parent is up to debate. I've always discussed ideas in the open whether or not I've had the tuits to get them done. > - You have no schedule I have a schedule now. Talk to ORA :) Open source projects get done in peoples spare time. Sometimes they have more and sometimes less. > - You have no controlled way to canalize user input (mail is not > controlled) I'm considering putting up an Inline wiki. I've done this for YAML (http://wiki.yaml.org) and it's a relatively good success. > - You are not bossy enough to making other do work for Inine Well I don't think it's about being bossy. NEIL, CRANK ME OUT 0.50! NOW! EXCUSE ME? WHAT PART OF "NOW" DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND??? It's about accepting patches. > > Now you'd like to run XP style? OK. I am lucky enough to work at a company > were we did develop insdustrial products using XP. > > - Customer contact > - Short iteration > - Group coding, design > Those are, in my eyes, more important than tests. > > Let us help. Let us help. You should let the customer fix the priority > list and the schedule. Let us get in the design and give us (me) some > coding to do. That's why it is out there. In case anybody else doesn't understand, this mailing list is a place to discuss ideas, not to wait for me to tell you how things are going to be. I am very opinionated, but a good argument will change my mind. I don't recall ever ignoring a wave of public sentiment. Customer driven design is hard stuff in Open Source, because you don't have any clue who your customers are. Some of the most loyal customers are the ones who never say anything and just expect you to do the right thing. Nadim, you are one pretty radical customer. And you are probably the loudest. ;) But as the project manager I need be aware that you are just one person. Believe me, I read all of your ideas, but I weigh them against all of the other concerns. > I know you never said that you didn't want help but I am lazy and if you > don't ask you won't get any. > > Now get me right, I am greatfull you wrote Inline, I Had much fun writting > Inline::Flex and other and I am greatfull for all the work you invest in > Inline and I hope you write a nice book too. But Inline is not a project > (in it's actual state), it's _your_ project. I think it's too big for you > (or for me in that matter) I also think some of us would like to have a > saying in how it will evolve instead for reading the description of how > you want it to be and when it should come. > > It is always very difficult to leave ones baby to strangers. Please ML, do > not answer me by saying 'the code is available make your own changes' that > would be very silly. I want the project to be a group project and I think > Brian would be good lead. Inline is a group project, and I am the lead. A Good lead? Well I hope to be better. Nadim, you are welcome to submit your patches, and I promise to either apply them, or come up with a good reason why they should not be applied and possibly help you rework them. Same goes for everyone else. > I might be plain wrong or I might be the only one interested in seeing > Inline development take another shape or there might not be any other one > that wants to help and have a saying. > > Disclamers: I did not intend to flamme anyone here and specially not > Brian. So please let's keep the ML as cool as it already is. If you can't > help yourself missunderstanding me, answer me privately. Hopefully your > flamme-back mails would have some content that can make me grow. > otherwise they'll make /dev/null grow. One last note: Inline is not my only full time project. As you can guess, I'm giving it a lot of attention right now because of the book. I can promise you my attention will wane again at some point. And there may be a point when I just step aside and turn over the reigns completely. So for now, let's get some work done. Cheers, Brian
